Okay, this is the fifth interview I'm doing for the Raymond Getz Oral History Project.
And it is Thursday, February 17.
Could you tell us your name and just a little bit about what your practice was like?
My name is Gina Kaiser.
I actually had a two pronged practice for approximately 16 years.
I was in private practice doing labor and employment law on the management side.
And then for another like 13 or 14 years, I was in-house general counsel and then an
outside consultant to Health Midwest, which was a regional vertically integrated health
care system based in Kansas City.
And at that point in time, I really became more of a general health care law practitioner.
When did you first meet Ray Getz?
Well let's see.
I was at KU Law School from 1973 to 1976.
I certainly knew of Professor Getz almost from the moment I walked in the door.
I actually took two semesters of his labor law class.
And I can't remember, I think I took them my last year in law school.
So that must have been the fall semester of 75 and the spring semester of 76.
But it could have been the year before.
I can't quite remember.
What had you heard about Professor Getz before you met him?
I heard that Professor Getz did not suffer fools.
I heard that one should be ultra prepared for his classes.
I heard that he was an excellent professor.
So that's what I heard.
And when you got into class, was that the first time you saw Professor Getz in class?
Well, other than seeing him around the law school, that was the first time I really had
any true contact with him.
He was always a formidable figure.
I sort of remember him striding purposefully through the halls of old Green Hall.
But truly my familiarity with him began when I took his first labor law class.
And as we sit here today, how would you describe him?
I would describe him as formidable.
I would describe him as fair.
I would describe him as an excellent professor who really conveyed the material to you.
And if you didn't want to learn, you shouldn't be in his class.
I mean, he was tough.
He expected you to have read the material and to be prepared.
And to be prepared.
Can you describe what his classes were like kind of generally?
My recollection is he went down the rows in order.
I don't recall him randomly calling on people.
So I think you knew when your turn was coming.
Now, I may not be 100% correct on this, but that's my recollection.
So you knew when you were going to be up or you knew within a reasonable time frame when
you were going to be up.
His classes were business-like.
There was not a lot of joking around.
You were called on.
You answered the question.
And then he moved on.
How did he treat his students?
I think he treated his students respectfully.
I think he treated his students fairly.
I think he treated his students like the lawyers we were going to be.
He didn't talk down to us.
He didn't treat us like children.
We weren't quite colleagues, but you knew that he knew that at some point we were going
to be colleagues.
Did you and your fellow students talk about his hammer's teaching style at all outside
of class?
I can't recall doing that.
I just think we all knew what we were getting into.
We were all there by choice.
It's not as if we had to take labor law.
It wasn't a required course.
And at least my recollection is I can't recall a time when I was in the middle of
class.
I can't recall a time where somebody in that class showed up unprepared and therefore got
embarrassed.
So there wasn't a whole lot to talk about.
At least is my recollection.
So that was my next question.
Was anybody ever unprepared, but not in labor law?
I don't think so.
Not in labor law.
I think if you were going to be unprepared, you didn't come.
Really.
I don't remember anybody being unprepared.
I really don't.
Did he ever invite the class to his house?
Not my class.
No.
What did you think of him as a teacher?
I thought he was excellent.
I thought he took very difficult material and taught it in a way that you got it.
For some reason, secondary boycotts stick in my head.
And I remember thinking, this is very difficult how one navigates
the whole idea of a secondary boycott.
And he made it understandable.
And I remember early on when I was practicing labor law at Spencer Fane,
a secondary boycott issue came up and I was thrilled that I actually recognized it,
understood it, and that was a real tribute to Ray Getz.
Right.
Did you ever go to see Professor Getz during his office hours?
Not that I recall.
Did you ever work for him as a research assistant?
I did not.
Did you know Ray as an arbitrator?
I didn't.
I mean, I knew he did arbitration.
I never used him as an arbitrator.
I think he came up on some panels that I received.
I certainly would have used him as an arbitrator, but I never had occasion to do so.
Did you ever talk to him about his arbitration practice?
I did not.
Did you serve with Ray in any professional capacity, either
with his ABA service or he was president of the Kansas City chapter of the old IRRA
back in the mid-70s, I think?
Yeah, no.
I think his presidency of the IRRA was before my time as a practicing attorney.
Probably so, or maybe right when you started, I think.
Did you ever socialize with the Getz's?
No.
Okay.
So when was the last time you saw Ray?
Was it in law school?
I think it may have been in law school.
I taught for a few years as an adjunct at KU, but I think you may have seen it.
I think he was gone by then.
I don't recall ever running into him when I was there to teach.
I think it was when I graduated from law school.
Do you recall hearing that he had died?
I do recall hearing that he had died.
And do you remember what your thoughts were?
My thoughts were that a terrific professor and an honorable man had died.
And the world was a little diminished because of it.
Did you ever talk to Professor Getz about your interest in becoming a practicing labor
lawyer when you were in law school?
I don't think I did.
I don't recall talking to him about that.
I'm not sure I even knew at that point that that's what I wanted to do.
But I knew that his classes very much interested me, and that was certainly a possibility.
But I don't recall having conversations with him about becoming a practicing labor lawyer.
Are there any other memories you have of Ray Getz that you'd like to share with everybody today?
When we were in law school, I think it was right around that time that the Scott Toreau book
1L came out.
Everybody likened Ray Getz to whoever that guy was in the Scott Toreau book,
Kingsley or Kingsford or whatever that guy's name was.
I didn't think that analogy was particularly apt.
I didn't think Ray Getz was scary or sought to intimidate you.
I think Ray Getz had high expectations, and that was fair.
Okay, well thank you very much for doing this.
I'm going to stop our recording.