- Good evening. Welcome to A Feminist Perspective. This weekly radio broadcast is sponsored by the Women's Resource and Career Planning Center, a program and information service of the Dean of Women's Office, 220 Strong Hall. And on tonight's broadcast we are interviewing Marian Washington, our new Assistant Director of Intercollegiate Athletics in parentheses, women. Correct, Marian?

- Yes.

- I'm joined in this interview by Dr. Carol Smith from the Dean of Women's office. The Feminist Perspective provides a forum for women themselves to speak publicly on issues of concern to them, and help inform other women and men of the movement which is remaking the shape and substance of women's and men's lives. Our Women's Resource and Career Planning Center contains large amounts of information, and also people, willing to help anyone, man, or woman, with any problem that concerns what's happening today in both the government and the society in general, in the effort to provide equality of opportunity for all of our citizens. We invite any of you to come in to browse, to take advantage of the material, which can be borrowed or to talk with someone about whatever concerns you. That's in 220 Strong Hall at the University of Kansas. And now Marian, Assistant Director of Intercollegiate Athletics, is that title becoming kind of familiar to you now? It's a brand new idea, isn't it? Or how new is it?

- Well, it's certainly new, it's brand new, and the title, yes, it's becoming a part of me now, although I wish I could cut it down a little bit when I have to write it out it takes a little bit of time.

- But even saying it takes quite a bit of time.

- Yes.

- Marian, could you tell us something about yourself? How did you get the background? What is your background to assume this position, newly created at the University of Kansas?

- Well, I have to, I guess start out with the fact that I've been very, very much involved with women's athletics since well, my high school days. And I graduated from Westchester State College. And while I was there, I participated in just about every sport that they had to offer. I very soon had to begin to specialize. And when I did, I selected women's basketball, and women's track and field. And with that, I began to strive toward goals like national teams and international competition, and was very fortunate to become members of some of the United States teams. I graduated from Westchester with a BS in physical education, health, and phys ed, and I decided to stay in competition. So I moved out here to the Midwest, began to teach in high schools in Kansas city, and after about two years decided to go on for my master's degree. But I must clarify that initially my contact with the University of Kansas was in search of a Discus coach, and it happened to be Mr. Bill Easton. And after I had worked out with him that first summer of '72, he and a good friend of mine planted the idea that maybe I should go on for my master's. And so University of Kansas became my home for another two years. And the experiences that I had during those two years was just unbelievable. I found that certainly college was the place for me. I enjoy teaching. And again, I continued being involved with an area that's been part of my life and that's women's athletics. And the move with women's athletics as it is right now, the program, the level, the extent of it, brought about a new position, where they were looking for someone to direct it, and I was encouraged to apply. And I did, I feel that certainly the mechanics of it is something that most of the directors who are directing programs are having to learn. It's new for us. But I also believe that I have an advantage whereby I am able to look at the program in three different perspectives now. I've been an athlete, I've been a coach. I am coaching, and I am still an athlete. And now I'm looking at it from an administrative point of view. So it gives me a better all around picture when I have to make some decisions.

- Let me ask you, you say that you participated as a child in the most sports where you had an opportunity to. What encouragement did you receive as a child and from whom?

- Well, it's very interesting. And that would be a long story in itself. I found that from the area that I came from, that you had very little, of course, to hang on to, and certainly wasn't money or that sort of incentive, but I found that sports came very easy for me. So what encouraged me to go on was simply that I was able to do very well with it. And I found that it was the one area that I was at the same level, or the same starting gate, as a friend of mine tends to say to me often, as anyone else. And I was being judged on what I did, and not necessarily who I was, or you know, from the background that I came. But that was the initial incentive. As I began to make some progress in the area of sports, I found people looking at me differently and began to encourage me to continue on. What about the kids in the neighborhood? Did you play with the boys competitively?

- No, to be very honest with you, I really did not. I found that most of my involvement then was women. I lived outside of our little town, so that I never really had a chance to get to the community centers where this is probably we would have the most contact, but most of my involvement was right there in the school. And it was always women, girls, physical education. And even when I got into college, after I got in college I guess, I began to meet men who were interested in the same things, and they would help me out here and there but never really on a constant basis.

- You said that you originally came here because there was a Discus coach that you wanted to work under. Were there women Discus coaches at that time?

- No. In fact not, I'm not just thinking about women coaches but there are very, very few Discus coaches in the United States today. And I think the University of Kansas, whether they realize it or not, very fortunate in that they've had one of the most outstanding coaches, discus feel event coaches, in the United States. No, many of their field event women and men are really desperate and looking for a field event coach.

- Well, now that you've been on your job for two months?

- I started in middle of June, but officially I started in July.

- Oh, a lifetime by now.

- Oh, I'm sure. Well, how do you see your position in fitting in to the total picture of the Kansas University Athletic Association with which you're affiliated?

- Well, this is something I'm striving for. I would like very much, and I am starting to get a sense that yes, I am being recognized. And when I say I am, I'm speaking for the program, as a part of this institution, as opposed to being an isolated entity. And I think it's very important that I make as great an effort as possible to make this a reality. We are not a separate program, and I would really feel very badly if it eventually came to be that way. We are part of the total athletic department, that's men and women now. I'd like to see it.

- Where's your office?

- Well, I'm located in a ticket office in Allen Field House, but they do have, and are making arrangements for me to be moved into what had been the Sports Information Office, 6 Allen in the Field House, and I hope to be there by the end of next week.

- I do want to say that someone has been making an effort so that people can find you. Because when I was down there for enrollment, which we held in Allen Field House, I noticed there were a lot of signs with little arrows pointing in the direction of your office.

- We need those signs.

- Aha. Good, good.

- Well, I thought that it was, you know, someone had done a good public relations job.

- Well, they felt that they would probably be bombarded by young people who are looking for our office. And so I decided to put some signs up and they stayed up.

- Good, we'll be anxious to hear about when you move. What are some of the things that you now have going in the University of Kansas sports program for this year?

- Well, I'm maintaining the nine sports that have been offered here for quite a while. I have also encouraged this year though, to have in six of our sports, and additional team in each one, for instance, hockey team. Last year, Billy had enough people for one team. This year we will have sponsored two teams, a A and B team, and field hockey, basketball. Swimming will literally have two teams. Tennis has two teams. Volleyball has two teams and softball will have two teams this year. So actually we are dealing with 15 individual teams.

- Nine sports.

- Nine different sports.

- What is the point of the two teams?

- Well, I came from an area where a school, they had four teams in their major sports. And I guess it's my feeling that, even though it is a program where we encourage the highly skilled, we ought to, instead of eliminating the number, make an effort to bring in more of our people to participate on an intercollegiate level. And it seems to me that it's a disservice to assume that everyone progresses at the same rate. It's my feeling that we do have young people who tend to take a bit more time in order to develop. So if we can give them an opportunity to come along at their own rate, I think we're going to do a lot for our program. So as opposed to saying only dealing with 11 women in hockey, we are working with 30 women in hockey this year. As opposed to say, I assume they had maybe 12 women in volleyball, while we are anticipating maybe as many as 20, 25 women in volleyball this year.

- So that the teams are set up on the basis of competitive skill, is that right?

- Each team, be it A or B, will be competing against a school or a team of competent skill level.

- Does that create some scheduling problems for you?

- Well, certainly it wasn't budgeted in. I think it's important that we keep it so that our coaches are aware that we're going to have to cut some corners that they had not been prepared for. But yes, it's putting a little bit extra work on me and my coaches. I've tried to give them some extra help, in that we've hired some assistant coaches that work with a number of sports, but I think it's worth the effort.

- You've mentioned coaches several times. I'm sure they're just key to your program.

- Absolutely.

- You have some full-time coaches.

- We have full-time coaches, full-time in that particular sport, that particular season. I've been very, very blessed with a very competent coaching staff. I feel very fortunate and the people that have accepted me, and who I found compatible to work with. At the same token, I have also found that we have supportive staff that are just going to be just priceless.

- Are your coaches men or women?

- I have a mixed coaching staff at this point. We have three men who are head coaches and the other, well, it would be five other than myself, women coaches.

- And you have an athletic trainer too, don't you?

- I have a full-time athletic trainer and also assistant.

- Who is a woman.

- Yes, both of them are women.

- This is a new field for women, too.

- It is. I'm very fortunate to have Irene Maylee and Katherine Goff. Both of them are certified. Irene's certified athletic trainer. And Kathy Goff is a physical therapist. And our women this year are gonna be taken care of for a change. _ Oh, I think that's marvelous, it certainly hasn't always been the case.

- No, we had a lot of problems.

- So kind of run through the whole staff now. Just starting with yourself, what does the entire staff consist of?

- Well, let's start from my office because that's where the key is. Myself, I have a half-time clerk type is Gerlinda Findley, who is priceless. And I'm now in search again of a student receptionist for the afternoons. In terms of my coaching staff, I have in hockey, Jane Margaret, would you like me to name them all?

- Yes, why not?

- Jane Margaret, from the east coast, very knowledgeable person in field hockey. In volleyball, Jack Ischar, who is a lawyer in Kansas City, and absolutely just knows more about volleyball than any person I know other than our recent coach. We have Ken Snow, who is a graduate assistant at the University of Kansas, our head gymnastic coach. His assistant is Catherine Schulte. Oh by the way, my volleyball assistant is a Judy Rainey. In golf, we have Nancy Boozer, who has two daughters who compete nationally, just fantastic athletes. In basketball, I'll stay with it, and my assistant will be Jean Reed. In tennis, we have a very fine gentleman by the name of John Sample. And his assistant will also be Jean Reed. In women's softball, we are fortunate to have Dr. Sharon Drysdale to stay with us. And her assistant will be Karen Harris. I'm trying to think there was track and field, was my most recent member of the staff. Her name is Lorraine Davis, and this young lady is originally from Panama, competed in 1960, 1964 Olympic games. And will be working with us in women's track and field. Most of our coaches have been either competitors on a national level, international level, or have been just so completely involved with that sport, that they are very, very knowledgeable people.

- They all have other activities, as well as the coaching? And you've named some who are students, I take it? Some faculty, you mentioned a lawyer.

- Right, Ken Snow and Jane Margaret are graduate assistants here. The other coaches, Sharon Drysdale, I'm sorry, I forgot my swimming coach. And her name is, oh gosh, Claire MacLaren. And Claire's assistant is William Burke. Claire and Sharon Drysdale will have a joint appointment. They will work with me in terms of their particular sport. And they are teaching within the physical education department. The graduate assistants, of course, are doing the same, but my other coaches are independent. They just work with me.

- Is this a common procedure now? Is this something which is just developing or something that you just developed personally? Or how would you put this in the larger context of what's happening in women's sports throughout the country?

- I think that it's a move that most of the universities are using, joint appointment situations. It's my feeling that if a person is competent enough to coach hopefully they would be of some use for the physical education department. I would like to see more joint appointments, if I had my way about it. I think that the phys ed people and the athletic department can work together and benefit from one another. But generally speaking, either the coaching staffs of some of the universities are completely independent, or I shouldn't say completely independent, but more so independent or they are more so a joint appointment. At this point, I'm almost half and half.

- It certainly sounds like you're initiating a lot of changes and a lot of new programs. It must be a very exciting time for you.

- It is.

- Good.

- It really is.

- Great, and we're happy to hear that from the standpoint of the women's teams, too. So we're really interested to pursue with you a little more, you mentioned other institutions. I know that you recently attended a meeting of Big Wight women's intercollegiate athletic directors.

- Yes.

- Can you tell us something about the tenor of that meeting, and what were some of the major issues?

- Well I'd like to start out by saying I, when I left there, I was very, very pleased at what I had been part of. I feel that initially what we were trying to do, is to share what each school is having to cope with, what each school's problems were, and also investigate the possibility of coming together as a Big Eight institutional situation. We are not trying to establish a championship, Big Eight championship as such. We are still part of AIAW and we would like to remain that way unless the AIAW decides to change.

- What's AIAW?

- Association of Intercollegiate Athletics for Women. And this is our governing body.

- A national organization?

- Yes, a national organization.

- And separate from other athletic bodies. Absolutely, yes. So actually what we were trying to do, initially, I'm sure that the meeting was called because there's some big, larger schools who are finding it difficult to get competition, competent competition. And it was an idea to maybe bring the Big Eight schools together. It's my feeling that that's true, but at the same token the Big Eight is already structured. It's something nationally known, our students be it women or men, when you mention Big Eight, if they know anything about sports, well, they can identify. So, three things came out of the meeting. First of all, we were able to share our personal problems, how we are structured within each of the individual schools, our scheduling situations, and the possibility of coming together in a Big Eight situation, but in a tournament situation. It is not and will not be a championship. So this year, we will have a Big Eight institutional tournament in swimming, track and field. And the University of Kansas has offered to host gymnastics. Next year, we will host a Big Eight institutional tournament in all nine sports. And what we've decided is that each school will try to host one of the sports.

- This is in place of playing each one of the teams separately at a lot of different times during the course of that season, is that right?

- Right, well, eventually we'd like to move in that direction, but because of the budget limitations there, we feel that if we were going to try to make something a reality very soon, then it would have to be in a tournament situation where we'd all come together at a site, as opposed to trying to schedule all the schools during the year. We just don't have the money right now.

- You've mentioned money once or twice before, Marian, what are your financial sources for this operation?

- Right now we are funded by the state and the Student Senate I am very, very pleased with the Student Senate. I have had the opportunity to work with two of the members, John Bison, who's the president, and Marcus I believe his name is, I apologize. But anyway, he is the treasurer, I believe, of the Student Senate. And they are in my opinion, very, very fine people. They understand and sympathize with my particular situation and have done, I feel, what they could in order to make it a little bit more desirable for me to work with the money at hand. But those are the two main sources. The other, well, I'll have to just work very hard to try to get some contributions. I hope to be out in the community more times than not.

- Your own salary paid from these sources or from the state?

- From the state, yes.

- But this, and this is the first year, is it not? That the state has directed general funds toward such a position for such a program?

- That's right, that's right.

- At any of this state institutions?

- Yes.

- What will you do concerning recruitment of athletes or let me go back just a little bit farther than that. You referred at one time to the effort in setting up to two teams and to bring in more women who were interested in the sports. Why is this effort necessary?

- Well, it's been my feeling that in the past, we have really done very little to expose our programs. And as a result, we have had a very few number of women participating in our sports. And to give an example, in three sports we've depended on say the same women to carry us through. And this, this is just unnecessary. I'll give you another example. Last year I was teaching a weight training program for women. And during one of my class sessions, a young lady walked into my class and introduced herself. As soon as I heard her name I knew who she was and her name was Miranda Lacey, who in the 1972 summer Olympic games was a 20 foot long jumper. She had been on this campus for a semester prior to her first appearance in my class. And she did not know that there was a track program and it just, by happenstance, that one of my basketball players mentioned the fact that he was also coaching track. Now here is a Olympic quality athlete on our campus, that just happened to stumble across the fact that we had a track program here. So I think,

- And you didn't know that she was here either?

- I didn't know that she was here. This program is for all. And I say that, and I mean it, it's for all the men students, and all the women's students and this is their program. And I think that we have, I have a responsibility to make it known, at least the fact that it is not a closed circuit, it is open for all. And we want them to come out. Whether it says a participant or as supporters, we need them. There are a lot of avenues that can be taken. And, you know, for instance, there's a booster club. They might even think in terms of coming up with something like that, but too, too long, has it been just limited to a few people.

- Then you also, of course, have a question of removing barriers along the line. You're talking now about the people who actually, through their own efforts, became athletes and have shown up. You also have the whole problem of what happens, the barriers that are put up all along the way, to interesting women and the athletics, and the question of letting it be known in the high schools that such a program exists. Are you planning to do anything about recruiting?

- Well, I have some limitations in terms of recruiting, and it has not been completely spelled out by AIAW yet. But I do know, for instance, my coaches cannot go out and recruit and I believe that there are still limitations on myself. What I do plan to do, is to, of course, get out into the high schools if they would like me to come, share with them the program at the University of Kansas. And with such a fine foundation to work from, I feel that this institution certainly strives toward excellence. I would like to feel that our athletics program will be perpetuating that kind of mission. And when I go to talk to young people, I'd like to be able to to share with them the overall picture that this university has to offer. And maybe we'll develop or stimulate enough interest, where they will contact me or find that I certainly have my doors open to anyone who might be interested and come in.

- There, such restrictions would, I presume, apply to the recruitment of particular athletes, that there'd be no reason that our admissions people going out in the high school, shouldn't talk about the fact that we have both athletic opportunities for both men and women.

- No, not at all. No, that's, that's fine. It's just like you're saying if it's a specific athlete. that I'd like to try to get.

- The overall picture to make women's athletics the kind of program that you're visualizing there'd have to be a great deal more general work done to remove barriers and to make the program available to all children.

- That's right. And this is why it's gonna be important that I do get out into the high schools and begin to communicate with the physical education teachers in those high schools, 'cause they're the ones that deal directly with the students, with potential students in the institution.

- And certainly informing students at whatever their academic level, informing that there are equal opportunities

- Right.

- Is, you know, everyone's job.

- That we're working toward equal opportunities. We wouldn't want to fool anyone that we already have them. We will be talking from time to time about the Title Nine regulations, the education amendments which does include equality of opportunity in athletics. And we haven't even had a chance to touch upon that this morning, but mainly we wanted to introduce you to the radio audience and to let them know that something is going on, apparently not just here, but throughout the country.

- That's right.

- Will you still be engaging in any of the kind of contests, you spoke of the Big Eight, the kind that were held in the past with other schools in Kansas?

- I'd like to maintain. We certainly will be this year, as far as I'm concerned, we will continue until AIWA makes some changes.

- Are these the sport days?

- You actually did compete, didn't you, in some of these sports with the other schools in the state?

- In Kansas, yes. I plan to continue. I'm not sure what the other schools are doing, but no, the Big Eight is not a means of terminating our relationships with schools in the state here, not at all.

- We certainly appreciate your coming and sharing what's happening in women's intercollegiate athletics. Marian Washington, the Assistant Director for Intercollegiate Athletics, with particular emphasis on bringing women into the main stream of athletics. And we appreciate your joining us tonight.

- Thank you very much.

- We look forward to hearing a great deal more about the program, and hope that everyone in our radio audience will ask questions and invite you to appear at the appropriate places to do what we can to make this opportunity available.

- I want to thank you, because I think that people like you will help certainly to get our program off the ground. And I really appreciate your support.

- Marian, we welcome you to the staff of the University of Kansas.

- Thank you very much.

- We hope that you'll join us again next week for A Feminist Perspective.