- Good evening and welcome to A Feminist Perspective. I am Janet Seers assistant Dean of Women at KU. And I will be moderating for this evening. A Feminist Perspective is sponsored by the Women's Resource and Career Planning Center located in the Dean of Women's office, 222 Strong Hall. Our telephone number is 864-3552. I hope that through this program you can become familiar with some of the many resources available to you through our office. We are concerned with anything that concerns women and have gathered people and materials to help you with questions ranging from career planning and academic counseling, to legal rights and current legislation to medical services for women. I hope that you will call or come by so that we can find out what's on your mind and what kind of services that you need. The goal of this program is to provide a forum for women themselves, to speak publicly on issues of concern to them and help inform other women and men of the movement which is remaking the shape and substance and women's and men's lives. The topic for discussion tonight is a review of 1972, what has happened of importance to women during the past year, and our hopes and visions for what could happen in a year 1973. We wish you a Happy New Year. And we'd like to tell you that we have prerecorded this show so that we can also celebrate the New Year with those that we can't be with. And so we will not be able to answer any call in questions for this evening. However, we hope that you will call in in the next few weeks and tell us what some of your hopes and visions are for the year 1973. What kinds of changes you would like to see happen that will affect the lives of women in our country? The women here with us tonight are Jean Robinson who is a charter member of the local NOW chapter, a charter member of the Lawrence Women's Political Caucus, and an instructor at French, in French at the University of Missouri at Kansas City. Our other guest who is usually serves as a moderator on this program is Dr. Emily Taylor Dean of Women at KU. And he is here tonight to share some of her knowledge on what's happening and what has happened concerning women nationally. She has just returned from a special assignment for the State Department and has been in Washington for six weeks. So she is up on what is happening on the national level of concern for women. Well, there's a lot to review in 1972. A great many things happened nationally, locally, here at the university, and the personal lives of women as they became aware of some of the things that were happening in the national movement. One of the things that comes to mind first, of course, is the passage of the Equal Rights Amendment. And would you care to talk about that Dean Taylor since you were in Washington on March 22nd? - Yes, I'd be glad to. The Equal Rights Amendment was passed, as I think everyone knows now, really for the first time by both houses of Congress in March of this past year. That we're reviewing. That means after 49 years of struggle to get it passed. There have been many occasions in the past where either the Senate or the House of Representatives had had passed some form of the Equal Rights Amendment. This was the first time that both of them had passed them, had passed it. And, in the form which women wanted, very simple form. It says nothing about women, of course, but just denies the right to any governmental group to discriminate against either a man or women. Now it's been ratified by 22 States as of last week. California just ratified a couple of weeks ago. And that means that 22 out of 38 that are required. Hopefully, the whole thing would be completed by the first anniversary of the passage by the Congress. - So that will certainly be a goal of women's groups in 1973. - Very much. - To work in their state legislators - It's been a goal all this past year and the states that have not ratified are doing some very interesting things. Things that those of us who were in states that ratified immediately, really did in a few days time. Missouri, for instance, our sister state, has just recently had a rally that involved many, many women probably the largest rally that's been put together by women's groups. It was led by the Missouri Commission on the Status of Women. It was attended by a great many legislators. Attended by the governor elect and others who would be influential in determining its ratification. As you probably know, there are other women's groups who don't really understand the issue and are not actually talking to the issue of equality, that have decided they don't want to be equal. And they too are importuning the legislators not to ratify the amendment but I think no one seriously believes that this could happen. - I think that it's interesting, in Kansas city, I know, that many different women's groups are now talking about this issue perhaps because it's dragged on longer there. I think some women's groups who've never been involved in the movement before are now because some member of the group is very concerned about this amendment, are getting involved. And I think that might be a good outgrowth of the passage. - In a way, I think I hear you saying, that it may have been just as well that it has taken as long as it has for this ratification and because it has increasingly then as the arguments have been given, made more and more women aware of, of what the situation really is. - I think that, yes, what I, and what I've heard in working in Kansas City is colleagues have said that they'd been a part of a women's organization or a club for maybe 10 years that just never even thought about women's issues. But now this item has been forced on an agenda and there's been a real effort to make sure that they're at least knowledgeable about the issue if not actively campaigning for its passage. - And, of course, another event of importance in 1972 was the election, the national state and local elections. Women participated in these elections in a way that they never had before. And this partially related to the work of the National Women's Political Caucus. Would you care to comment on some of the things that happened in the conventions and in the elections in 1972? - I think the thing that pleased me the most about the National Women's Political Caucus is that it got so far in such a short time. When it was founded it really had no base of support. And it was just a group of women who said, you know, we're going to try to do a lot before this, this convention, these conventions in this national election. Certainly on a national level, as well as on a statewide level, we, we began almost too late but still I think the impact was felt most strongly in the makeup of the two major political conventions. We all know that the women were much more present there. The percentages rose dramatically. At the Democratic Convention, women, the women's representation increased from 13% to 38%. And at the Republican Convention, the percentage gain was from 16% to 32%, but it wasn't only that women were there. I think in, in hearing about what the caucus did at those conventions, once again more women were exposed to a feminist perspective and seemed in large numbers to be receptive to the information that they were given. The caucus did a lot of homework before the conventions and had facts and arguments ready for the women who wanted to try to change something on the convention floor. Although, I guess more changing, perhaps, went on in committees, where plans were changed, then actually before the nationwide television audience. Can't deny that Shirley Chisholm's candidacy was related to the activities of the National Women's Political Caucus and candidates all over the country, I think, were, felt the support of the women locally or statewide or nationally. Some financial support was given, not enough. We'll have to work on that more next time but the gains that were made, you know, were made a little bit more possible because some organization of women was after those results. I think this was the first time in our history that there was the nomination of a woman to both the presidential candidacy, with Shirley Chisholm, and the vice presidential candidacy, with Sissy Farenthold of Texas having been nominated. So I think that presented a dramatic change from past conventions that both of these were serious candidates and some support. And as you said, their candidacy raised some issues that perhaps exposed more women to what, what the issues are in the women's movement. - Locally... - Before you, before you leave that I think we ought also to say that it seems a very significant aspect of the whole situation and not only what the National Women's Political Caucus did at the, as, at the conventions but the roles that women who were duly elected as delegates. Many of these people, of course, were elected. The fact that women found out how elections took place, how you got to be a delegate, and the roles that they played which seemed much less subsidiary than they once had of the past. Women took a very active part in both parties in this election, far more active than they'd ever taken before. Both in terms of the number of women who ran for office, the number of women we even considered it, the ones who were out working on electing, not only women but men who understood the, the, the concept of equality. I think that those things all have to be taken into account too. I was surprised at the, at the activities and the attitudes of some of the women who I knew and others that I met in terms of how they looked at things. It wasn't a question of how many stamps they could lick but what they could actually do as part of the decision-making process. - In addition, there were some changes in the in the Kansas legislature as a result of participation, increased participation of women. What were those changes? - Well, the, the representation of women in the House doubled. And I think that the the two new members will be more active spokeswomen for, for women's issues. And, you know, it will certainly help in the communication between state women and the state house. We have entered the Senate and the same year I guess that, for the first time, pages now can be, the Senate voted last session that pages could in fact be girls. So well, that's one more area I've experience that that young Kansas women will have. A lot of women ran in Kansas and made it through a primary election or had a very respectable showing in close races for the House and for the Senate. So I think, again, any area of experience many women think of it as a possibility now and maybe a probability that they can or or shall run in the future. - And we've seen this throughout the United States that the statistics are very interesting. I don't have them with me now, but a much, much larger number of women ran for office than had ever run before. And a larger percentage where a larger number were actually elected than have ever been elected before. The same thing is true even of the Congress, even though these gains are very, very small. And if one were looking at it from a different perspective, the question could very logically be asked that with all of the energy that was put out in this whole election process, how were the results consistent with it? I believe that they were, even though we can't point to a third or half as it should be, of the, all the legislators and the, and the Congress being women, we can see the, the beginning of a rise of, of true interest and willing to make the necessary commitments. - Another just attitudinal change, I think, is really important. I haven't been hearing people say that women lost because women can't win elections. Most of the women who lost are running against incumbents and that's a hard job to unseat an incumbent. In Kansas, there were quite a few of the women who happened to be in the minority party candidates. There seems to be a real willingness to accept the many reasons that cause the candidate to, to win or lose and not look at it simplistically as if women can't win an election. - Hardly anyone, men or women, defeated any of the incumbents. - Right. - I think another thing that happened in 1972 that will increase the awareness of women's issues was the beginning of the publication, nationally, of Ms. Magazine. Something that has caused a great deal of discussion. And it's very hard to obtain in Lawrence anyway, on the local news stand so a lot of people are reading it. In their January 1973 issue, they announced that they now have 145,000 paid subscriptions. This magazine is owned and operated by women. And it's really the first national media concerned only with women's issues - Of, in magazine format. I think it's a significant too that although it didn't actually start in, in 1972, Women Today have their newsletter. NOW Women Today, began in 1970 and the spokeswoman I believe in 1971, but these two publications which have a very wide circulation are are keeping increasing numbers of women informed of by means of someone, a group of women doing this, of course as a nonprofit, but nevertheless, they're operating it themselves, service of reading everything, which is which comes out in the press and taking out those matters that are special concern to women and disseminating that very widely. They're also increasing numbers of newsletters, of women's caucuses, of women's organization. So that the problem now it seems to me becomes one of not engaging in unnecessary duplication. Our own publication of the Interstate Association of Governmental Commissions, which I'm editing, is a case in point. I try to be very careful not to duplicate what other people are talking about and what's available through other recognized media, but rather to concentrate on what the governmental commissions themselves are doing because there's a tremendous amount of activity, a great increase in, in activity. We can, I can hardly read it all myself as it comes in or get it filed, but I am at least aware of everything which any of these governors or, or statutory commissions on the status of women are doing and the, the activity level is, is very high in comparison to any previous year. - I think there are a couple of other interesting results of the creation of Ms. And one that I, I really enjoy in within the magazine itself is that they are, have each month devoted quite a large amount of space to letters to the editor. And I think that those letters show us how clear it is that lots of different kinds of women and men are reading the magazine. And it's not just a bunch of radical feminists reading a feminist magazine, but women in, in all kinds of lifestyles are, are really thinking about the articles that Ms. is including for publication. And the other thing that we've begun to notice is that Ms. is influencing the other widely circulated women's magazines that have been women's, women's magazines without being feminist for a long time. And, and I think a lot of us had who had chosen to ignore all of those magazines for several years are now realizing that maybe it's only one article or two articles a month that are of interest to feminists, but those articles are finding their way into the the oldest most well-established magazines on the newsstands. - Yes, I think this is a, is a very significant. I once did a study of all of the women's magazines of mass circulation and comparing them in their attitudes toward working women with, this is a fiction, with the, with the fiction which appeared in other magazine of mass circulation most of which have now gone out of existence. But the women's magazines, most of them are still in existence and... - And fine - They're doing fine and there is a tremendous change which I think permeates more than just a, an occasional article and I too have resubscribed to the Woman's Home Journal and McCall's and, and Good Housekeeping and magazines which I found nothing that I cared to read even a few years ago. - Some of the other kinds of things that happened nationally, were the passage of several laws and executive orders. Dr. Taylor, perhaps you'd like to comment on, on some of these and what their impact has been and will be. - There have been more laws passed in 1972 by the Congress. And of course, some, good many state laws too. In fact, several states have passed an Equal Rights Amendment just for the state, which has the advantage of being able to be put into operation immediately as opposed to the two year wait for the implementation of the Equal Rights Amendment because you have to, they, the law specifies two years after the ratification before it goes into effect, but of these, rather than to go through all of them individually which we have of course done in the course of our radio programs. I'd just like to mention to you that there are 25 out of all these laws, that there are 25 very specific effects that is 25 affirmative action issues in employment alone that are concerned with the such things as the executive order that we hear, of course a great deal about, which forbids discrimination against either men or women. The, the strengthening of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the addition of sex discrimination as an, as a study topic for the Civil Rights Commission, Title Nine of the Education Amendments of 1972, the strengthening of the EEOC, which is the enforcement arm of for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that all these things many of them duplicate one another in terms of what they specifically prohibit, but they, they they all boil down to 25 different issues about which very specific stands have been taken by the government. And that once the, the law is, has been made and becomes effective then there are people who begin to enforce it. And of course there're others who encourage encouraged them to enforce it and encourage women to insistence that they be enforced. - So this has really been an important year in terms of national legislation and for women. - On this issue, the most important year in the history of the, of the Congress. - And many of these things are in effect right now and it can affect women as they seek employment or... - Right. They're all... - seek promotion. - In affect as of the, as of the 1st of July all of these laws are in effect and they do forbid discrimination and redress is available to people who feel that they're being discriminated against. - I think one last thing that we might touch on on a national level, was the report at the Federal Commission on Population Growth and the American Future. This commission issued their report on March 16th and took a stand on the matter of women's rights to control their reproductive lives. They stated women should be free to determine their own fertility and the matter of abortion should be left to the conscience of the individual and made in consultation with her physician. I think this in conjunction with the Supreme Court's decision to hear two cases on abortion, one coming from Texas and one coming from Georgia, means that nationally, we may have some guidelines that will extend the right of women to control their reproductive lives beyond the 12 States that now have reform or, or, or new abortion legislation. And I think this is definitely affects women nationally. at this point. Well, here at the university in the past year and locally in Lawrence a great deal of activity has taken place. One thing is the founding of the local NOW chapter. Jean, you're a charter member of that. Would you like to talk a little bit about that? - Well, when I mentioned that the caucus was new, the NOW is even newer locally. We've just been in existence a very few months. Bonnie Patton and Quincaly Streagal were conveners for the local NOW chapter, meaning that they took the initiative to call a meeting and see if anyone wanted to have a local chapter. Nationally, there must be 10 members to have a recognized chapter which can send representatives to national conventions and have all the rights of a recognized chapter. Well, the first night at the end of the first meeting, we had 17 members. That number has grown, I think about doubled since then. So with no real effort, there were people who were willing and able to, to be officially recognized as members of the National Organization for Women. I'd like to add that the 30 or 35 members are certainly not all women. I think the majority of the members I'm sure the majority of the members are women now but men are welcome and are present at the meetings. And I think that's significant on a local level for us. - Also, in the university during the past year many, many events have taken place relating to affirmative action and resources for women. But I think we will come back to that after the station break and survey some of those events. And then talk a little bit about what kinds of changes we can foresee in 1973. And that we will all be involved in working towards. So we will now take a station break. - Welcome back to A Feminist Perspective. Our guests this evening are Dr. Emily Taylor and Jean Robinson and we were discussing or reviewing the events of importance to women in 1972 and we're gonna spend some time projecting what kinds of things we hope will happen that our concern to women in 1973. We attacked some of that, some important things happening nationally and locally but many things also happened at the University of Kansas in the past year, relating to affirmative action and other issues of concern to women. I think one of the most crucial was the appointment of an Affirmative Action board on which you served Dr. Taylor. And that took place in March of last year. - Yes, the committee was, originally began, it was appointed, originally began its work in the spring of last year. And of course the board is still working on the problem. Provisional plan was, was written after a great many hours of work and submitted as widely as possible to people for their response. And the board has received a great many responses to it and picked up many good ideas from it. Since, since the committee began its work, additional guidelines have been issued. HEW has issued its guidelines. They didn't say anything much different from what Revised Order Four, that came from the Labor Department, said and we had not waited for the HEW guidelines, but at least they are available now and have been incorporated. So that hopefully this documented, which is of course, you know, required by law, will shortly become available as a basic plan for establishing an entire program of affirmative action. - One of the other developments at the university level which relates to that is the formation of the Office of Affirmative Action for Women that opened in July of last year. Is that true? And Shirley Gilham is the action officer. - That's right, for women. Actually, she was appointed somewhat before that but I suppose that's when she started officially, started her job. She has been at work with the Affirmative Action Committee and also in carrying out the beginning of the analyses that also required by the HEW and by the Office of Federal Contract Compliance to determine, you know, where the shortcomings are at the university. The Affirmative Action board has not limited itself specifically to regulations, of course, but really has tried to consider what needs to be done at our college or university. And most particularly at the University of Kansas in order to fulfill the requirements of taking a affirmative action to bring women and minority members into the mainstream of the university. - I think another action that took place on campus in the past year that raised the consciousness of many people in relationship to women's issues was what became known as the February Sisters. In February of last year, some women occupied the East Asian Studies Center for some 13 hours and issued a mandate raising some of the issues of concern to them. And out of that have come, come several different things. One that could be most closely related, I think, was the formation of the Hilltop Childcare Center. They subsequently formed the coalition with women in school of education, women in the Student Senate, a very broad based group which brought forth a proposal, which has come into actuality in the, in August of this year Hilltop Childcare Center opened its doors and now serves 50 children from three months to five years. And I for one am very happy to see this development as I have a daughter at Hilltop but I think it's not enough to meet the childcare needs of the community, of the university community. - Certainly it is a step in the right direction to offer a quality daycare because most of the concepts of, as long as people continue to have children, as I have no doubt they certainly will. They, it is a greatest gap in our educational system and there's no news talking about freedom of choice for women, unless something better than custodial care can be offered to children. - I think that may be something we hope to see happen in 1973 is, is more availability of this kind of childcare and a part time childcare for those people who do not need full-time daycare to the women, both students and staff and faculty at KU. Also, in the past year, there have been some feminist speakers come to campus. Jean, did you hear any of the speakers who were here this past year? - I heard both Shirley Chisholm and Robin Morgan as did many other people. I, Shirley Chisholm spoke to a very large crowd in Hoch auditorium. I think Robin Morgan was in a, was in the big gate room, I think, in the Kansas union, a smaller audience, but certainly a good turnout. And I think that both speakers were certainly important for consciousness raising, for causing everyone in the audience to think about some new things. Not that everyone agreed wholeheartedly with everything that either Shirley Chisholm or Robin Morgan had to say but they were certainly listened to. And there was a chance when, when both speakers were here for women to meet with them after the speech and continue a dialogue about some of the issues that have been raised. And once again, I thought it was important that there were large numbers of men in attendance at both speeches. And I think that's very important - Also, in the past year at KU, we've seen an increase in the number of courses which concern themselves with women's issues, within the departments, within the disciplines, concentrating on that particular aspect of women. And, next semester an even greater increase, a new course will be taught on Women in History. There was a course on Women in the Humanities last semester. And several other courses being offered in several departments throughout the university. I think next semester, there will be a line listing in the new catalog called Women's Studies in which all the courses related to this area will be cross-listed with the departmental offerings. And so it is sort of recognized as an area of study, interdepartmental somewhat similar to Environmental Studies that kind of cross-listing that they've had in the past. - And that certainly is a highly desirable way to to approach the problem. Some schools have set up a special Department of Women's Studies, which means growing women out of their regular disciplines and off to themselves somewhere but always with the hope that ultimately the kinds of concepts and the kinds of awareness that as such courses can produce will be built into whatever the structure of the college or university turns out to be. At the moment, it certainly is departments and that seems to be the way in which the situation is developing here. - Dr. Taylor, I think one other thing that has happened this past year was the beginning of this radio program. Our office began this program in January of last year so we are celebrating sort of an anniversary and have increased the time from a half hour to an hour and have brought large numbers of women here to talk about things that are of concern to them and to raise hopefully the consciousness of people who are listening and offer them an outlet to raise some of their concerns by dialoguing with us via telephone. Some other things have taken place at our office. Could you care of comment on some of those? - Well, we began using the subtitle, Women's Resource and Career Planning Center, to help to clarify what the, our office was really all about. Because we're often asked that question and it's extremely difficult to answer it superficially to say, well, we do, you know, the following things because we need to keep before us all the time that our primary concern is the education of women which involves a great many things and involves a planning ways in which both through individual contacts and sessions with women and through groups and through programs that we can make an increasingly large number of women aware of the choices available to them and encourage them to choose freely among those choices. We do get for many calls from women who are not actually members of the university at the present time, but who wished to be. I think one of the very interesting statistic is that in the decade of the sixties, the number of women over 30 who returned to school, doubled in that period of time. We don't have any specific numbers at the University of Kansas because nobody has figured that out yet but we do know that very large numbers of women are seeking additional education either because they wish to enrich their lives or or learn more about some particular subject or because they're actually seeking degrees which will make it possible for them to enter the labor market. - I think another again at KU this past year that illustrates that there are large numbers of women in this community who are in that position was the sponsorship of the over 21 workshop by the Division of Continuing Education and the Office of Affirmative Action. There was a large response to that. And many women there wanting to know how to come back to the university, what kind of resources were available to them, and what some of their particular problems might be as over 21 women and women who had been out of college for a number of years. So I think that response indicates that in this community, as well as nationally, there are large numbers of women in that position Who are seeking to return. - Yes, I did, I hope we'd have even more of that, that it was very interesting that the sponsors of this program identified 1500 women right in Lawrence and its vicinity who would have been eligible to come. And although the room was completely filled, the numbers indicate that there are still more who should be reached at least with the offer of assistance. Because many people really keep it in the back of their mind or occasionally think about that they really liked to look into something and hardly even know where to begin. Just one of the things that we hoped would come out of the identification of listeners with our program that at least we were pointing in the right direction and and make available to them, the, the names and the places of other resource people in the university who would be very much interested in assisting them. - Jean, during these past few months, you've been applying for some fellowships and there are some changes that are in the number of fellowships that are available to women Would you like to comment on that? - Yes. I think that I, again, this shows us that nationally there is more of an awareness that, well, on two, two areas I think. One that we are not educated in women's studies and we means people with PhDs or masters degrees or bachelor's degrees and school diplomas. And there's, I attended a convention recently and there was a real awareness that no matter what field we might have chosen if we plan to teach a course in women's studies that was never presented to us in the degree program. And there has to be some way to get to that knowledge. And it means a lot of personal commitment but it's also gonna means, mean that there needs to be some support for further study from the universities, be it research grants or institutes or conventions that help women become well-versed in women's studies while people are still in the degree programs. Now there are new fellowships being made available to women and or people wanting to pursue some area of women's studies. Ford Foundation has just announced the creation of 15 dissertation fellowships that have to do with women's studies. I believe Rhodes scholarships are available to women this year. Danforth has had a good record of for the past several years, I think that's true, that they have had some or one area of competition specifically open to women who have been away from university study for a minimum of three years, I think, And that shows an, an understanding of the problems of putting together letters of recommendation and credentials that are, that can be competitive with other people who are right at that moment in the degree program. And I think, but there will be other foundations outside the university that are trying to get the word out to women that if it's a returning to school or completing a degree that there is more support than there's ever been before. - Is there even in... In other matters, there's tremendous drive this year to interest more women in applying for Whitehorse fellowships, a real drive, because if one compares the number of people who are chosen, the number of men or women chosen for any particular thing in the fellowship you're talking about or Whitehorse fellowship, or what have you. So often the argument that one gets in return is that the very few applied. And of course, the reason that very few apply is very often a feeling of inferiority of feeling that, well I couldn't get it anyway, or looking to the models that are presented in the brochure that sent out and noticing, you know, one woman among a very large number of men. So it does require that someone say specifically and personally, I think more than just reading it somewhere, this is a possibility, and we hope that you will apply for it cause it's happened in and in every way. The number of women, for instance in the foreign service, even the number of women who apply for it is very low in comparison to the to the number of men, just even in a applying. They can't be selected if they don't apply. - I think another area that here at KU that reflects the increased encouragement of women to enter fields that they haven't heard before and increased support for this is that in this year's class at the Kennedy Medical Center, 47 women were admitted as contrasted with 14 last year and between 14 and seven over the several years proceeding this past year. So large numbers of women are responding to this encouragement that they're getting and are able to compete, actually. - This is a thing, is that an excellent example of what can happen when two things take place. One, a strong law is passed as say was the Health Act which said, if you are going to accept federal funds then you must stop discriminating against women or making assumptions about whether they would continue as doctors if they went into the field or not. Same thing is true in all other medical services like nursing in trying to attract men to a field that has been predominantly women. The other thing, or the other factor is that because of the law and the discussion that comes from it and the general state of awareness which is accelerating the, the selection committees and and individuals who are involved in admissions are not passing over as lightly as they once did the applications which they receive. So those two factors together, I think, are kind of the hope for the future, I would say. - Well, obviously there are many, many things that have taken place in 1972 and there is no way that we can survey them all. But I think we've touched on some of the more important things that have taken place nationally and locally, and then within our university community. Now we'll take some time, I think, to dream just little about what we would like to see happen in 1973, what some of the things that groups are going to be working towards and some of the work left undone from 1972 as the passage of the ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment by an additional 12 states. So would you care to join me in this dreaming a little and say what some of the things that you hope to see happen are? - Should... - Should we start locally and expand nationally or... - Well, I think I already started to moment ago when I suggested that they, the passage of the law followed by or in conjunction with an awareness, does have lots of significance in terms of encouraging women to, to to try for the things that they are interested in whether they're political or or training programs or whatever they are. - I think that the experience that the experience that we've gained in 1972 means that a lot of things that will be tried in 1973, won't be a first effort anymore. And I really hope that whether it's sophistication or a new understanding of the problems at hand will really show up when women are asking for new programs, asking for appointments. We've heard so many times that there are no women at an, a high enough position that they can be appointed to a higher position. Well, we're getting women in those middle positions all over the place and women are getting the degrees. Women are getting the experience. And I, I hope to see some of those arguments just disappear. There will be qualified candidates. - Yes. I think I will be very happy when we get to the place where we hope to find ourselves reading articles in newspapers pointing out, first's. We've had a great many first's and I think it's come almost to the point of boredom at the present time at least for some people who feel that, so why did they happened a long time ago but each first is a, has as, followed of course by the second and third and enter the hundreds. - I guess we'll have to be sure of that though. - Yes, it isn't gonna happen, it isn't gonna happen automatically but certainly everything which does happen can lead somebody else to realize that it is a possibility. For instance, if you look at the figures on a national level, just in the, in the government the number of women in the super grade civil service positions and the really high level decision making positions did quadruple last year. There's four times as many as before and still represents only 1%. So perhaps a goal for next year is to raise that to 2% or 5%, it did happen last year in a time of retrenchment was a 5% reduction. And so it was probably even a little bit better than it would have seemed otherwise, but far more significant than that 118 women are the 1200 women who were appointed to middle-management positions because it is from those middle-management positions that people see real possibilities when they begin talking about cabinet level jobs and, and other very high level jobs where they simply cannot, where it's not realistic at least politically realistic to take a totally unknown person sort of out of the air. They have to either come through government or they come through middle management positions in industry or in the business or in the universities but they have to have some experience. - Well, I think one of the things that I'd like to see in the next year as an extension of the right of women to control their reproductive lives. As I stated earlier, there are only 12 States now that have reform or repeal abortion laws. So this means there are still many, many women who live in states where they may not even have access legally to birth control information, much less to therapeutic abortions. And the fight is going on in many states. There have been some setbacks. The referendum in Michigan, I think is an example, where the state was asked to take a statewide election and they referendum there was defeated but there are other states, such as Florida, which during that same election did establishing a repeal abortion law. But there are many states that don't even have the necessary laws on birth control. And Massachusetts, I think is one of the classic examples where women don't have access legally to birth control information. So many people operate outside the law or many people leave their states and the communities in which they live to obtain these services. And so I hope that in 1973, we'll see that the continuing recognition that women have the right to control their reproductive lives and the end of compulsory pregnancy for women, especially poorly women. - And that same issue and on a different level, I hope to see an expansion of all the discussion in the real soul-searching that's going on. I mean, women across the country on this, this choice, the right to control our bodies, certainly means that we have to arrive at the decision of whether or not to have children and if the decision is yes, when to have children. And I think that all kinds of social pressures are being questioned now. And that I see most of my friends really thinking about family planning as being a very personal responsibility and not just that you have to fall into the mold set by you, for you, by parents, friends, whatever. So I think that kind of thing will expand that maybe it'll be an exception if a woman doesn't feel that her very own personal decision to make. - I hope for increased understanding on the part of of men and women alike and on the part of, of children as to what an equality movement is all about. I think that one of the very great dangers is in the use of certain terms that have a, that are so emotionally charged that people are not really discussing the issues at all when, when the subject is broached. Perhaps we'll be clever enough in 1973 to think of some new ways to approach a problem so that the, the emotional dimension of it doesn't prevent the, the a true discussion of the ideas that that are behind it. We're talking for instance about abortion. I watched a television show on a public broadcasting station where a group of people, in the presence of an audience, was discussing this issue and this seemed like, you know, intelligent people and yet the nature of some of the kinds of things that were said were not much above the, the, some of the arguments we heard about daylight saving time you know, the geraniums wouldn't like it, so that that's really sticking to the issues and finding out what they actually are and what people are really saying. It seems to me as an important, an important thing for us to kind of look forward to, coming here. - Yeah. I think I could live with the fading away at the term women's lib, or are you a women's lib'er which has some very negative connotations. - And I hope some of the jokes that we've all heard many times will be old jokes for everyone and so then they won't get repeated so often. And perhaps this human liberation that is been talked about some in 1972 will be talked about more in 1973. And, and some of the problems in, as you mentioned the emotional overtones of seeming to imply a battle of the sexes has been talked about for so long. We'll get over that too. If we can change some of the terms. - I think in other areas that I would hope to see changes in, and it's happening very slowly, I feel, is the portrayal of women in the media. NOW, I think the National Organization for Women has given their Male Chauvinist Pig Award to the worst advertisement, each month. And there are some really classic examples where they really haven't changed from that from the housewife, mother portrayal of women which I think relates to, you know, having a model to see yourself in a different light. And, and we need lots of different kinds of models. Certainly a housewife, mother model is one but there are many, many others. I think another part of that mass media presentation of women would be in, in the help wanted ads in the newspaper. Many newspapers have failed to come in compliance with legislation and de-sexigrate their ads and offer jobs on the basis of ability and requirements rather than on the basis of sex. So that's a thing we can continue to work towards. - Yeah, and I would hope that more would realize that even if no law had ever been passed that making it fair for, and making it clear to everyone, men and women, that here is a job that's available and here are the qualifications that are necessary for it. And let anybody man, or a woman who feels that he's qualified, make a, make application for the position. - I hope that the kind of affirmative action plans that have and started at the University of Kansas and other major universities and in some businesses across the country will just spread. So that they're an, an accepted thing that we'll assume that large corporations will have an affirmative action plan, it's working and active. And we can assume that every college in the area from a woman might choose to be a student there or ask for a job there, apply for a job there that, that they can know that there is some ongoing plan to prevent discrimination. - Well, I'm sure we can all go on and on and on, that we have lots of hopes for 1973 and looking back at 1972, many of them are very realistic because many things have happened in the past year. And I'm think we can depend upon what you were saying, Jean that we've learned a lot and we can build on that. And maybe things will come a little easier in 1973 and maybe we can accomplish twice as much. Well, we thank you for joining us on this New Year's Day. And as I said earlier, we hope that you will in the next few weeks share some of your hopes for 1973 with us. Some of the things that you would like to see happen in some of the ways of work that you see from women in our community. Also, I'd like to announce that he tapes of A Feminist Perspective for the past year are now available in the library at the Dean of Women's Office and the Women's Resource and Career Planning Center. Some of them are excellent discussions of topics of importance to women. And we hope that you will check them out and use them as discussion areas and for use in classes or in any other way that you would like to use them. So please, if you're interested in hearing any of the tapes or we'd like a list of the programs to see if you would like to check out some tapes that is also available in our office. And I hope that many of these tapes can be used to further inform men and women have some of the issues that are of importance to us all. Well, we thank you for joining us tonight and thank Dr. Taylor and Jean Robinson for being with us and hope you will join us again next week for A Feminist Perspective. Good night. - Happy New Year.