- Right now one minute past seven o'clock and this is KANU Lawrence, Kansas. Each Monday night at this time, KANU and the office of the Dean of women at the university of Kansas, present a Feminist Perspective. This program provides a forum for women to speak out on issues which concern them. Listeners will have an opportunity to participate in the program by calling the KANU open line at 864-4530. Now here is the moderator for a Feminist Perspective. - Good evening, and welcome to a Feminist Perspective. This is Carol Smith substituting for Emily Taylor. This program is sponsored by the women's resource and planning center, located in the Dean of women's office, Two 22 strong hall. The goal of this program is to provide a forum for women themselves to speak publicly on issues of concern to them. Tonight, we are beginning a five part series on lifestyles. This first program is concerned with childcare, philosophy and operations. In the following weeks, we will deal with, two career marriages on October 16th, marriage, family and divorce laws on October 23rd, alternatives, the family and transition on October 30th and singles in a couples world, on November 6th. we maintain an open line during our show, so that you can call in to ask questions of our panelists or comment on the topic of the show. The number is once more, 864-4530 if you wish to call. Tonight we are pleased to have with this four women who are very knowledgeable in the areas of child development and or childcare operations. They are Dr. Frances Horowitz, chairman of the department of Human Development and Family Life at the University of Kansas, Judy Bencher Vinco director of the Hilltop childcare center, Mrs. Belden Patton, a home daycare mother and Molly Laflin assistant to the Dean of women. Welcome ladies. I'd like to tell you in the audience a little about each of these interesting women and then I'd like to ask each of them to share something of her background and how she got involved and interested in childcare or child development. Dr. Horowitz has a voluminous and very impressive dossier that she has shared with us, and I'm thrilled to have her here on the show. Welcome. - Thank you. - She has degrees from Antioch college, Goucher college and the State University of Iowa. She has been an elementary school teacher and assistant professor in Arvin college and has held many research fellowships and associate positions in various locations. She's been here at the University of Kansas for a number of years since 1961. She has worked extensively with the operation headstart in the evaluation of its programs and has taught in several areas here at the university including courses in infant behavior and development, Children's learning, theories of child development, general child development and intervention and compensatory education. Dr. Horowitz, you have an outstanding background. Thank you for coming tonight. Can you tell us something about how you have gotten so far in this field and how your interests have developed in child development. - As a developmental psychologist, one can hardly avoid becoming involved in child development and childcare policies. I guess since becoming a chairman of the department of human development that does operate in nursery school, one gets naturally involved in childcare problems. But probably at the more active level, it really began when they first head start program started and the University of Kansas operated in conjunction with a number of people in the community. The first two summer head start programs until a full year head start program could be started. And it was that dramatic initiation into the problems of childcare, public policy funding, and working with parents that really generated the interest that has lasted over the several years since then. - You've been cooperating with OEO continuously I blade during these years in evaluation of the project. - Yes, we had one of the original head start research and evaluation centers that the Office of Economic Opportunity set up in an attempt to evaluate headstart which turned out to be a very difficult attempt. - I'm sure, perhaps you can share more of the information you've gleaned in these years with us a little bit later on. I would like also to welcome Judy Bencher Vinco. Judy, as I mentioned, as director of the Hilltop childcare center. she was very instrumental in the development of this program and this center opened its doors August 28th of this year located on the University of Kansas campus. Judy taught in a daycare situation in St.Louis, during all the summers when she was in high school. She came to the University of Kansas and obtained a bachelor's degree here in 1965 with a major in sociology. During her college summers, she participated in the junior leadership training courses for preschool leaders. She then after graduation went to Trenton, New Jersey where she was a caseworker, and worked with placement of children and foster homes. She was the head teacher and program director of a private daycare center in Trenton. She came back to Lawrence and then established and directed the United childcare center in the Methodist church until this fall. Judy, how'd you get interested way back then when you started working with children in the high school days? - Well, I sort of inherited my interest in young children's since I grew up in the settlement house where my father worked as program director and my mother ran the daycare center. So from the time I was old enough to qualify, I went and long after that I volunteered and became familiar with other daycare programs around the St.Louis area. - That's really interesting. Mrs. Belden Patton is a home daycare mother in Lawrence and she's a licensed for six children including this year for the first time in infants. Mrs. Patton first was licensed in 1965 after having applied for a license late in 1964. She is a charter member of the LAEYC. Let's say Judy, tell us what that is, you've learned. - Louisiana Association for the Education of Young Children. - Right. Well LAEYC used to be called, the divers County nursery school group. And Mrs. Patton has been with it since the formation of this group in about 1965. Mrs. Patton has three children and five grandchildren. She's a graduate of Linfield college in McMinnville, Oregon and she has teaching certificates in home economics and child development. Welcome Mrs. Patton. - Thank you. I became interested in taking care of children I guess it was sort of a more crave because I can remember my mother saying as we used to walk down the streets in a little town in Nevada, that she thought I could love an Indian child as much as my own. And I didn't know at that time that later I would be loving Indian children like my own. My husband was a missionary to the Indians and we had been for 30 years with the Indians and I have had several Indian children in my home and love them like I did my own. And then when we moved to Lawrence in 1964, my children were college age and I was looking for some way to supplement my income and help to keep them in college for a while. And I decided to start taking care of children. And the first child I took care of was an infant but I didn't realize that there was a state law that we had to be licensed. But early, very shortly after I took the first child, Lucille Peyton invited me to come to the Lawrence nursery school association and informed me that there was a law requiring us to be licensed. So I applied immediately to get my license and have been licensed every since. And I think that the reason I got interested is because I deeply loved children. - Thank you. Molly Laflin, is from St.Louis and she has completed a bachelor's degree in public relations from the University of Kansas. She's now working on a master's guidance and counseling. She works half-time as assistant to the Dean of women and has helped us a great deal in the coordination of our interests in the childcare area. She developed while a student at the University of Kansas, the proposal for the Hilltop childcare center that opened this fall, and she is now chairman of the governing board of Hilltop. - Oh well, how did I get involved? I keep asking myself, how did I become involved? I don't really know. I just, I saw a need that was expressed quite visibly by the February sisters and brought other people's attention to it. And because of the knowledge I had of a university governance to my participation in student Senate, gathered together all the people that I knew in the community, in the university that were knowledgeable about childcare informed a board, which is now our governing board and Judy's member of that board. And we drew up a proposal for Hilltop, we lobbied in the student Senate and the proposal passed unanimously, I believe. And ever since then, I've been working on Hilltop and finally opened up this fall. - Well, thank you very much. This evening, there are a number of questions that I would like to have us direct ourselves to in the general areas of childcare. Some things that I think would be helpful to our listeners if they are concerned about childcare or if they have friends who might be concerned. In the beginning, perhaps we should talk about of choices do parents have to make about childcare? What might lead parents to consider childcare or might force a parent to seek childcare? Judy, you've been in this situation of seeking childcare. - Well, I think there are several things that would place a mother in the position of needing childcare. One is the need to go back to work or the reality of being a single parent and or in this community, going back to school full-time. - Very true. Dr. Horowitz, do you have any insight to add to this particular question? - Well, I think also sometimes mothers need free time period whether they work or go to school or whatever. And that there ought to be alternatives for caring for their children. That's not limited to the sense of absolute need. - Have you known some parents who were in this situation of just needing some time by themselves? - Well, it's very hard to find part-time childcare for mothers who may not have a regular schedule to keep who would like an afternoon out, who would like to just sit in on a course or pursue their own creative activities in some quiet place. And the problem that exists in Lawrence, devolve around the fact that there are very few choices and very few sources to go and get help for getting good childcare services. - Perhaps we should talk about what are the childcare facilities that are available in Lawrence at the present time. We have a diversity. Mrs. Patton, what about the home daycare mother? How many do you think that there are in situations similar to yours? - There are only three that are licensed to my knowledge in Lawrence and there are many that are taking care of children I believe, under very undesirable circumstances and that are not abiding by the law and being licensed. - Why do you feel that some of these people have not sought licensing? - The licensing restricts you to a certain extent, you are only permitted to have four children. If you have two that are under two and you are allowed to have only six if you have two to six in your home and it is not difficult but lots of people feel that the licensing that their home might not pass inspection. The state is very lenient in the type of home you have. If you do not have hazards in your home, if you do not have open furnaces or musty basements or insects running around, it's not really this difficult to become licensed that I think a lot of people think that it is. - And that's too bad because there are some benefits that could be accrued to. Molly, what about some of the things you've discovered that could help these mothers if they were licensed? - Well, the most important, I think to a home daycare mothers is that, are the food programs that are available to the same type of, or the same programs are available to large childcare centers. So Judy knows more about the specifics on that. - If you want to become a home day care mother could get some assistance, which I could. - She can receive both school lunch program funds which give a certain allotment per day, per child, per meal type thing, and then also surplus food commodities. And also if she's licensed, it means that she can take care of low income children whose families are unable to pay for the service, but are able to send their children because they qualify for federal daycare funds. But those funds are available only to licensed situations. Certainly would provide like a much needed service in the community if more people were licensed. - If you compare the situation in Shawnee County with Douglas County, the percentage of home daycare settings that are licensed is much higher. And that's partly because they've had more aggressive program of informing people who take care of children about the licensing program and stressing benefits of the license is very inexpensive. The guidelines, the restrictions are minimal and they're in the interest of the safety of the child. So then one shouldn't think of them as restrictions but really as standards for good childcare and the public is not educated. If parents were looking for good child care would routinely inquire of people offering such care, are you licensed? This would do a lot to get people aware of the licensing program and where there is a good licensing program, there are daycare mother associations, where are the people who offer daycare can come together give each other help, get help from state and local agencies. So there has tremendous potential benefits for a community, If there's someone who takes the responsibility of developing an aggressive program and in Douglas County we have not had anyone who has been aggressively interested in expanding the licensing program. - Anything else in this area at this time. Judy, would you describe for us what is involved in a childcare center? And could you differentiate for us between that and a nursery school? We have both in Lawrence and could you help us differentiate. - A child care center usually means that the care is offered for children from very early in the morning, as early as 6:30 or 7:15 until late in the afternoon, 5:30 or six o'clock. It's usually includes at least one meal and often two snacks and a period during the day when the children rest or sleep and then hopefully a wide variety of other kinds of preschool activities. One of the big differences between, when the obvious differences between daycare and nursery schools, is the amount of time involved. But I think that it's important since more and more daycare centers are being set up in Lawrence and across the country that people tune in to the demands that children have, who are away from home for a full day. Most of these kind of, we've all around the business have needs for affection and needs for quiet times and noisy times and private times and group times and all those kinds of things that often at the child's only there a few hours a day you don't feel as urgently as you do when you spend a very long day with the children. - So then nursery schools tend to be part-time in terms of three days a week or five half days a week, this kind of thing. - Yeah. These are usually a luxury item for women who aren't working who don't need, at any rate don't need the full daycare for their children. - And there are a variety of these types of nursery schools in Lawrence. - Yes. Wide selection for a town this size certainly. - But are they expensive? - I think there's a good, you know, like difference between what's charged at the preschools. I think some are aimed at different income levels so that their prices do vary. - Quite a bit I think, yeah. In the daycare center, how do you meet just briefly some of these needs in terms of needing a private time and a group time? Because I would suspect that if you had a large group time I wouldn't necessarily follow up at the same time. I'm just curious. - Right, right. Well, a lot of it depends on having a professional staff that really can tune in to the child at his level and a staff that has committed to pouring out affection as well as ABCs. And then a lot of that I've found this year since the facility a Hilltop is so grand, has to do with the amount of space and space is expensive. So usually centers are as big as they need to be to fit licensing requirements in that much bigger. And since this building was not originally designed for childcare, we've been lucky enough to have barn-like rooms, which really provide privacy and a chance for a lot of different kinds of activities to go on at the same time and still not make the children feel like they're really having to face the whole big group all day long. - Very interesting. Dr. Horowitz, what sort of facilities are available in the nature of special facilities for children who need daycare but wouldn't fit in perhaps to a regular daycare or nursery school situation or home care situation. When does this count? - Well, there are not any special facilities for children with special needs in the area of daycare, I don't believe. There are several preschool groups that are, there's one that's begun for handicap children. There is one that deals with children who are retarded and who have learning problems. Another takes children who have severe behavior problems. These are very often children who've been enrolled in a regular nursery school or daycare center and could not get along. And so a special arrangement is made for them but for a full daycare for children with special problems, as yet there are no facilities in Douglas County. - But a home daycare mother might get such a child if she was willing to take him or her, is that correct Mrs. Patton? - I had a child last year that had a different learning problem. I don't think it was ever decided whether he had brain damage or what, but he needed lots of love because he came from a broken home and he was four years old, but did not speak when he came to me. But because of being with the other children he soon learned to speak and became a happy child where before he was withdrawn. And the only way he knew to play was to be rough and tumbly. But after a while he was very loving kind child. And I did take that child. - How long was this developmental process? - I had him only about a year because the mother remarried and moved away. - No, I do not know whether Cottonwood takes children all day long. If someone has a child who has special needs and needs full day care, I don't think any of us here know at this time but Cottonwood would be a place to inquire. - You did the information so you could tell the audience where they could check if they, is this something it'd be in the phone book? - Yes, yes. Or information cause it may not be in the new when the new phone book comes out it will be in there. - Okay, very good. Oh, you were mentioning some of the benefits of the children being with one another. Mrs. Patton, I think that, can you tell us a little bit about how you happened to take an infant? I think it was tied up in the same kind of question. - Well, we have a neighbor across the street. The father is in Slavic languages at the university of Kansas. The mother is my chemist at the hospital. And I have had more than one infant. I took their baby when she was just four months old plus special permission from the state of Kansas. And then they asked if I would take another infant if they had another baby and almost ordered the baby on the assumption that I would take care of it. And so I have asked again for special permission but I got my first permission to take an infant when a child came from Egypt and she was not quite two. And I told the father I could not take the child because she was under two. And he said, someone in America has to love our baby. So I called the state office long distance and ask if they would give me permission to take care of this child. And they said for international relations, they felt that it was worth it and they did. So this was the first exception that they made and gave me a license for someone that was under two. - And you now have a little boy who is seven months in your. - No, a little girl... - No girl. - Who is seven months, seven months. Her name is Tamara. - And how do you see this little girl interacting with the other children who are. - I had her one week, but she is just very excited and happy. And it's very wonderful for the other children to have a baby because there's nothing that the children love more than getting to love and pat a baby and the baby just loves it too. - Judy, you've had some experience with trying to mix the various preschool ages and trying to get them to accommodate one another. Can you share any of those? - Hilltop is unique in the fact that it has a group of toddlers. 13 children who are ranged in age from a year and two months to two years and three months. And at different times during the year, we take small groups of the toddlers up into the classrooms with the older children. And it really takes a lot of give and take on both sides. And many of the children at the center are only children in their family and have no real understanding of what it's like to be around a young child. So that I feel like it's important in developing their own self concept. The younger children of course learn so much by imitating the behavior of the older ones especially in the areas of language development and in the business of willingness to try new miraculous physical fits it seems like the infants are really growing along. So that it's been great fun for all of us. - You know, we've come a long way. It used to be as Mrs. Patton was suggesting that in the state of Kansas there was no group care allowed for children under three. And Judy was telling me this afternoon, that the state licensing guidelines are being readied for adoption that will allow group care for infants in this state. - And will there be a lower age limit for the group care? - Yes, it will be like from birth, its not before birth. But the limitations and guidelines are very restrictive, particularly in the area of how many children can be with how many adults, which means that it's very expensive to offer good care to very young children. - What's the ratio do you have to maintain at Hilltop? - I think that the ratio that's coming is one to five, our ratio is one to four. - Well, thank you very much. What's the total size of your group at Hill top we're talking about? - 54, which is large for a center, usually 48 children is the limit. - And how is your group broken down? You said there were 13 toddler. - Right. Primarily after the toddler group by age so that there are there's a group of two and a half to three and a half year olds in a group of three and a half to four and a half year old children. - Dr. Horowitz from the point of view of a child development specialist and child psychologist, do you feel it's pretty important to get the children's ages mixed up, such as what they're doing at Hilltop and having them interact with one another throughout the process of the day? - Well, I think from a common sense point of view it can be a good experience. It depends upon how the adults arrange it. If you mix the ages and the older children are taking advantage of the younger children then that's not a good situation. If it's well managed so that each child has opportunities for successful experience, then it can be very facilitative of development. - That's a very, very important point. It's something you probably always should remember as we just deal with children on a day to day basis to be sure that every child has a chance to succeed. Anything else that you'd like to say in this segment we're going to have to take a little break for station identification. Judy? Immediately after station identification we're going to try to listen to a tape that Molly put together where she went to Hilltop to talk to the children about their experiences and it's pretty exciting to hear what they have to say. We had an interesting experience as we thought about doing it. Dean Taylor was talking with some of the children and she decided to pose the question. She said, well, what would you say, if Judy asked you how you liked going to Hilltop? And there was complete silence. Well after a little while, I just couldn't stand it any longer. So I bought it right in and I said, well, what's the matter? You know, why aren't you saying something? And the response was very interesting because the child said, well, Judy, wouldn't ask us that. She knows we like it. So I think it sounds like you have a very happy group. - Its great. - Well, so we sent Molly over to ask the questions about how they liked Hilltop and we'll get to that right after the station break. - This is Jim Seaver, inviting you to listen in for Opera Is My Hobby at eight o'clock Friday evening. Then for the first time on Opera Is My Hobby, we will hear the early Opera of Leonard Bernstein. This week on the Boston Symphony Orchestra concert an Holland Bach program with guest conductors Seiji Ozawa. Thursday night at eight o'clock, the Boston symphony will present two of Johanna Sebastian Bach's Brandenburg concertos, No. 2 in F and No. 5 in D. Bach's suite No. 2 in B minor and the cantata, 'Gloria in excelsis Deo' number 191. Our special interests to listeners are the two Brandenburg concertos, which feature unusual orchestration. Be listening Thursday evening at eight o'clock for an old Bach presentation by the Boston Symphony Orchestra on the Boston Symphony Orchestra concerts from KANU radio, Kansas most powerful radio station. You're listening to a Feminist Perspective from the public radio service of the university of Kansas, KANU Lawrence. Here again is Carol Smith. - Welcome back to the second half of a Feminist Perspective on childcare, philosophy and operations. With us here tonight, in case you had just joined us are, Dr. Frances Horowitz, Judy Bencher Vinco, Mrs. Belden Patton and Molly Laflin. Now at this time, we're going to listen to the tape that Molly made when she went over to talk with the children at Hilltop daycare center about what they think of being in a daycare center. - Can you tell me what you did this morning? - I ate breakfast. - You ate breakfast, what'd you have for breakfast. - I had cereal. - You had cereal? Was it good? What'd you tell me who's your best friend here at school? - Jamie. - Jamie? - Why is she your best friend? Cause what? Oh you are the best friend, huh? You like her pretty much? - Yeah, - What do you do with her, do you play? - I play and I run around. - You run around? - With my coat off. - I wanna run. - Do you want to say anything? Do you want to tell me what you did this morning? - I played. - What'd you do? Who with? - The climber. - The climber? what'd you do on the climber? - She goes, you go up the ladder too. - Oh, really? Can you go up the ladder? - The ladder, you get up high. - Is that hard? Is it hard to climb up? - No, it shake. It goes round and round. - Can you climb up the ladder? - I can. - I can. You can? - I can too. - Can slide down the pole? - I don't have a home. - What's your name? - Stella. - Who's your friend? - That's a new friend, some times you get a sister and a cat. - Cause what? - A sister and a cat. - A sister and a cat? - No I play, my daddy take me to school everyday that's why. - That's why you play? - And I play and I just play. - Do you have a good time here? Do you like it here? - Just for a little while, if I take a nap and my daddy is gonna pick me up. - Oh yeah. Tell me about the job. What do you do there? - Play. - What do you do? - Play with dolls, stop hitting me. - Do they have dolls up there to play with? - Ah hah. And there are clothes. - And clothes too? - Yeah. - To put on the dolls or to put on you? - On us. - Oh really? Are they nice? - Yeah. - Like what's your favorite dress up clothes? - Purple. - Purple? What's that? What does it look like? - Purple? - What does it purple? Oh, that's your favorite huh? - I like white. - Oh you do? - I mean Yellow. - Oh yellow, is that your favorite? - I mean why happy. - Do you get lonely on the weekends when you don't have all your friends to play with? - Yeah. And I'd be mad too. - Oh how come? - Because nobody wanna play with me. - Oh why not? There's nobody around? Then you're anxious to come back here again on Monday? Pretty good place, huh. - Yeah I like it here. - We went to a pond. - You went to a pond? - Yesterday. - Is that yesterday? - We tried to get a frog but we didn't. - I went to dancing and did some of the acrobats. - My mom called me a frog. - Wait a minute. My mom called me a frog. - She called you a frog, how come? - Because I think I looked it. - Oh really? Why did she say that, are you green? You don't look green to me. You don't hop around, do you? You do well, maybe that's why huh? - I'm tired. - You're going to take a nap pretty soon. - Do you know why we take a nap because we're tired. - Do you want to take a nap every day? - Yeah. Every day when we come to school and after we eat. - After you eat you're ready for nap, huh? - And after we get the back too. - Do you think all kids should take a nap every day? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - What about adult people, do you think they should take a naps? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - When they get tired I get tired for everything? - Yeah. - Yeah they can do. - Well, I can vouch for that. What do you like best about being here? What's your favorite thing, eating? What's your favorite thing? What's your favorite thing? - The climber. - The climber? Which one is the climber? - Over there. - That one. - And we go inside too. - Is it scary on the top? - No. - What's your favorite? - My favorite thing is the climber inside and the climber outside. - Oh I see. - And I wish I was going down the pole. - Here are some worms. - Oh goodness, where did you get those worms? - You like to play with worms? You like worms? - Want to say something. - Keep them right there and say it, what do you want to say? What eats hot dogs that is red and never eats a teeth? - What eats hot dogs and its red, and what? - Never eats teeth. - Never eats teeth? Does anybody know? I don't know. - Red rock eater. - Eats hotdogs, wait a minute I don't understand that joke. Oh, you got to worm too. - I want a worm. - You want one too? Somebody better help her find a worm. You want to worm too. There's plenty over there. - I want a worm, can I get you one? - Does everybody like worms? - I do. - Who doesn't like a worm? - I do, I like worms. - I want a worm. - Why do you like worms? why do you like them? - I think they are pretty. - Cause what? - I think they are pretty. - Oh they are pretty. Do you learn anything? You learn? What do you learn? - I don't know. - I learn numbers. - You learn numbers? - I know numbers already. - You do? - I can't do it of the way up. - Well what can you do? - Like a 100. - What can you do? - I can do a ten. - Where is everyone else from? - Know how much I can count up to? - How far? - There, five, 50. - There's a big difference between five and 50, right? Do you like to come here? - Yeah. - Tomorrow morning we all want to come back here? - Yeah. - Cause we love it. - Cause you love it? - Yeah. - What do you think the teachers do? - Feed us some food. - Oh, they do anything else? - We go down the stairs. - Well goodbye. - Bye. - Thank you very much Molly. Got to studio, you sound like you have a very active and lively group over there. - Very talkative but. - They like to climb on the climbers and get the, what are they? - Worms. - Worms. Get the worms. - When Judy is looking for children next year, she can use that as a commercial road. - They sound like a happy group. - There is worms in town. - Do you have any particular comments after having listened to this segment. Molly, what was the children's reaction when you were trying to get them to talk? Besides from the fact that you were outside there's a lot of background noise. - Well, the three year old children were very skiddish and I walk up to them and say, hi, what's your name? And they just kind of look at me then walk away, really frightened. And then I went into the four year old room and they just, oh, clamoring around me. But 10 of them, you know, they all wanted it. They're turned to say something. It was a hard to take them because they're all talking at the same time. - And we noticed that. - For a while no matter what you would ask them they tell you when their birthday was or something or you ask them what they did today, and they'd tell you what they ate yesterday. If their minds... - Well they are a lot of time concentrating on the question. - But they wanted to hear their voices on the tape recorder. It was really funny. - Very good. Well now, if I were a mother of a child and I wanted some information about childcare in Lawrence and I wanted to send my child to a happy place like the one we just heard about, where would I get some information? Where could I go about finding information about childcare facilities that would be available to me? - Well, the only source that now exist is a publication put out by the Lawrence Association for the Education of Young Children. They can pile every year a list of all the nursery schools daycare centers and I believe licensed home daycare that for the current year is now being put together and should be out soon. The Lawrence Association for the Education of Young Children distributes these as widely as they can. They put some down at the Chamber of Commerce and the Douglas County health department. They're available in various spots on the campus, I believe. But if you came into the town cold and you didn't happen to run into anybody who knew about the existence of the LAEYC, your only hope is to do it by word of mouth. If you happen to think of going to the Douglas County Health Association or the Chamber of Commerce, you would find these lists available there. - And on the campus, I think the places that they'd be available would be through the Dean of women's office and through your department, the Human Development Family Life department. And then I don't know, maybe the school of education also would have some copies but I don't know exactly what department that would be in. - It probably should also be put in the union and I don't know if they are or not. - Maybe we can check on that for this year. And favorite idea. Mrs. Patton, do you know that the word of mouth, the grapevine is primarily the way, do you advertise? - I have only advertised once in eight years that I have been licensed. The Dean of women's office has given me references, the health department has given me references because of this list that has been compiled. And this has been one of the advantages of being licensed is that people recognize you as a satisfactory home daycare facility and are willing to recommend you. - Judy do you have anything to add? - Well, only that more recently they're often as the paper spots that become available in existing daycare centers or preschools? I think part of that has to do with the amount of duplication of services that we seem to be getting in Lawrence. So that often there are childcare slots available later on during the year. - What can be done to encourage better quality daycare facilities in Lawrence? We already had talked about trying to increase the number of home daycare centers that are licensed. Is there something else that could be done or that we could help facilitate? - Well, I think that there is still a lot of childcare needs in Lawrence that are not being met by any of the existing centers. And I think one of the most immediate that I feel when I take the calls at Hilltop, is the need for some partial short-term childcare for parents who only needed a couple of hours a day or on an emergency basis this kind of thing. Many other places in the country have set up centers that operate on a primarily volunteer call up kind of idea. And certainly one of these is desperately needed by the student community. - A drop in center of that nature. - Yeah. - I would like to say that the affirmative action proposal that the affirmative action board at the university has come up with includes and their recommendation to the chancellor that the childcare be a priority for the university. And they specify all types of childcare needs from the short hour need, short-term per day on a basis that's planned out according to either your class schedule or study schedule or whatever to the needs that people have at nights or when they want to do something during the day there's not planned and all types of childcare needs need to be met, whereas right now, they are not. - One of the other big needs is the need for childcare for school aged children. So that if a mother is working in a child gets out of school at three 15 or three 30 there's still a large segment of time where, you know like it's very difficult to make plans for that child. And it's no longer appropriate for them even after when they begin kindergarten to continue in the same preschool setting. And so there really needs to be some larger cities take care of this gap by settlement house kinds of activities. But in Lawrence, there are a few things for children to do. - I think one of the strongest needs and the one that's being the least met both in Lawrence and around the country, is for well-trained childcare in your own home. For parents who can't afford to have someone in the home meets the needs of a large age range, preschool, and afterschool. It meets a mother's needs when her children are sick it provides you some help with housework. And it's a kind of comprehensive a home-based childcare which in terms of the calls I personally received, that's the kind of childcare that is the hardest to find and the hardest to give people references to. There are lists of licensed places. As Judy says, the after-school care in your own home care, is the least met need in Lawrence right now. - When I lived in a major city, I found this was true that there were some licensed agencies that had people of this nature. And while I couldn't afford it often, it occasionally was just the kind of thing that was perfect. And I could imagine that, well, for instance now I could perhaps better afford to use such a service if there was one available, but there is not here. - I'd like to mention that some of the problems that even so the affirmative action board which is planning a seminar on October 17th for the over 21 woman coming back to school, they had quite a few calls from women who wanted to come to the seminar but were unable to because they couldn't manage to their childcare problems. And women are continually kept back from opportunities like this because of childcare problems. Also others' problems during enrollment, women sometimes have to take their child along, their children with them and through enrollment which is kind of a horrible, it's horrible enough for the parent to have to go through more or less than any children. And just kind of temporary things like this are real. - Yeah. I just experienced a very unhappy situation in the office last week when I had to help a young woman on enroll withdraw from the university. She was only a part-time student. And very literally, and I being interested in this area I quizzed her very thoroughly. She and her husband just simply could not manage the childcare problem with their income level. And so she had to literally drop out of school. And that's just not the kind of thing we'd like to see in the current world for a young woman who's very bright and talented to have to drop out of her own schooling. That's a big problem. - That's one of the other really big problems in Lawrence is that people have the mistaken idea because it's been successfully done at least two times that daycare centers, childcare centers can be self-supporting. And in order for a childcare center to be self-supporting it means that the that the staff has to work for kids for very low wages, and that things just go unmet, needs just go unmet. And there are very many people in the community who really can't afford a $3 a day minimum and there really needs to be some kind of subsidy or help coming from somewhere. So to this point, there hasn't been any, with the exception of headstart, which is federally funded. But it would seem to me, that some benevolent group could decide to, you know like sponsor, really sponsor a childcare effort. - You know, a scholarship, a student's child or something good. - Well, I think, it would be nice to have someone do it benevolently but that's not really going to solve the problems. It needs to be done on a wider basis in terms of federal or governmental funding establishing quality guidelines for programs. So that it's not something that people have to hunt around for big for funds for. This is a right of women to have, a fathers too. Mothers and fathers to have adequate childcare services available to them. - I think that that's really important point that some people who are listening to this might feel that we're saying that someone else should always care for your child and that you were giving up your rights as parents and I don't think that this is true at all. Because a portion of the child's day is spent with other children and at some other place or with another person, does not negate the parent's love or duty with the child. Many times children that stay at home get less care because the parent is spending the time rather than with the child, you know, doing the laundry and cleaning the house and keeping busy. And I think that some people have the mistaken idea that childcare means negating your parental duties. - There's been a lot of research on the working mother, interestingly enough not very much on the working father. But there's just no evidence to substantiate that the mother working out of the home and the child receiving care from anybody else is it all harmful. And probably there are many instances in which is extremely beneficial. - It seems that United States really has been rather slow to acknowledge this and some other countries have forged ahead. Can you tell us about some of those instances Dr.Horowitz? - Well, right now, there's a very large Carnegie foundation project that is surveying a daycare around the world. And the United States has the worst daycare the least coordinated, the most poorly funded of any of the developed nations. And there are many nations that are much less developed than we are who have much more adequate daycare facilities, who put in much larger share of their economic resources into providing good care for children. - That's some of the countries that we've read a lot about certainly are, you know, what Russia has been doing. It's quite a difference in philosophy that certainly goes into a country putting this kind of money into it. I believe we were mentioning some of the countries, the non capitalistic countries, where the goals for individuals are rather clearly defined. But Israel has achieved a lot of acclaim in the way that they've handled childcare and so has Japan. - And the Scandinavian countries have probably in terms of a mixed economy, the most extensive childcare programs than any country around the world. - Where do you think that our government stands? Where are we headed in this backwards? - Backwards What did we have some federal legislation pending this year? Just recently. - Well, it passed, but it was feeble. - And this would have been an instrumental that is implementive type of legislation that it would have been to develop and maintain childcare. - Well, it was an omnibus bill and included everything. One of the problems with it is that, it would have provided funds for facilities that would have had to been staffed by cadre of trained professionals who don't exist. The need for training right now is desperate because it's going to come eventually after the political hassles get worked out. But what we should be doing right now is training people and making sure that as we train there are jobs available. So we don't lose that manpower. - Again, there are federal programs available at this point for people who want to set up daycare centers which will incorporate a training program for teachers into them and a university town, could easily enough cooperate with some segment of the university to do this. - The state of Kansas also has available the last couple of years, $50,000 a year to a deal that to centers in this state or to develop centers in the state. They generally, they started out, I think they gave, maybe 10 or 11 of these grants and they realized that, the money really wasn't well used because they needed at least they wanted each center to at least have about eight to $10,000 to get going. And so I believe this year, they only gave up five or six. But they have the restriction that they don't want to give these out to any center to develop any center in a university setting or that even if the childcare center will take people in the community. I'm not really sure about the reasoning for this. - Except that their terms voluntarily poor so that they don't qualify for federal programs. - Oh, students are voluntarily poor? - That's the rationale of it. - Hmm. I tell some students I'm sure are shocked. - They can always get out and go out and get a $20,000 a year job just like that. - We all could. Wow, yeah. - I'm afraid people barely disagree with them this year. Oh, well, as we're coming to the end of the hour, we probably should once more tell people how they could get in contact with someone, if they were interested in obtaining childcare for, and in this particular case we're talking about someone under school age. Dr. Horowitz, do you want to give the name of the local association again? - Well, the Lawrence Association for the Education of Young Children, which is LAEYC. Probably the best way to get a hold of the list, the one that exists for last year and the new one coming out is to contact the Dean of women's office or the Chamber of Commerce or the Douglas County Health Association, or a member of the LAEYC. This year I understand the president of that is Regina Miller. And she works in Hayworth hall in the department of human development. And if someone needed the old list or wanted to be sure to get the new list any one of those places or Regina Miller would give her access to it. - The other thing that could be done would be that it would help if people who have childcare needs, they're not met, could attend even one LAEYC meetings. Those meetings are advertised in the newspaper usually a couple of days before they happen. And I think all of us learned with the February sisters that a lot of getting your needs met is letting people know that you have the need, so that I think people should speak up so that their services can be available. - I would like to say if anyone wants to get a license that you have to first apply to the Kansas Health Department in Topeka, Kansas, the department of maternal child welfare, Mrs. Shirley Norris, you apply there. And then the health department will come and inspect and the welfare worker will come and you're on the road to getting a license. - Yeah. I'd like to also mention that these people should also inquire about the advantages because it seems that for some reason sometimes they're not aware of the programs that they can key into and especially the food programs and the daycare fund program. - And I'm sure they're not aware that they're breaking the law by not having a license. - That's true too. Yeah. - I'm sure that people would be much less happy and satisfied with having her children in such situations that they realize that the mothers should be licensed as well. - Well you know, but many of the unlicensed homes are good. Family daycare homes, and I think Molly's stressing that there are advantages for someone who's licensed isn't that they're going to have to do anything differently than they're doing. - They had to get licensed, and then they can seek some of these other advantages such as financial remuneration. - And also getting on your list. - Getting on my list, right. Which I'm sure it helps with not having to recruit. So we want to thank each of you for being with us tonight. We're coming to the end of our hour. We would like to remind our listeners that the office of the Dean of women and the commission on the status of women are sponsoring programs this week on a series called Women in Politics. Progress will be Tuesday and Wednesday evenings at seven 30 in the big A room of the union. Please join us next week for a Feminist Perspective. And the topic will be two career marriages. Goodnight.