- Monday night at this time, KNU and the office of the Dean of Women at the University of Kansas present a Feminist Perspective. This program provides a forum for women to speak out on issues which concern them. Listeners will have an opportunity to participate in the program by calling the KNU open line at 864-4530. Now here's our moderator for A Feminist Perspective, Terry Edwards.

- Good evening, and welcome to A Feminist Perspective. I'm Terry Edwards, Assistant Dean of women at KU and I'll be moderating tonight's program. A Feminist Perspective is sponsored by the Women's Resource and Career Planning Center located in the Dean of Women's office in 222 Strong Hall. Our telephone number there is 864-3552. We hope that through this program you can become familiar with some of the many resources available to you through our office. We are concerned with anything that concerns women, and have gathered people and materials to help you with questions ranging from career planning and academic counseling, to legal rights and current legislations, to medical services for women. We hope that you will call or come by soon so that we can find out what's on your mind, and what kind of services you need? The goal of this program is to provide a forum for women themselves, to speak publicly on issues of concern to them and to help inform other women and men as a movement, which is remaking the shape and substance of women's and men's lives. The topic for discussion tonight is women in politics. How did we do in 72? And the women who are here with us tonight are Ellen Gold, who is from Lawrence and an active member of the women's political caucus here. Ellen sometimes describes politics as her hobby, which I think is a good hobby too. Also with us, is Cindy Hurd, a junior at the University of Kansas Cindy was the chairperson of the women in politics program which was sponsored by the commission for the status of women, which was the main part of this program was held earlier in the fall. And I'll feature Shirley Chisholm as one of the speakers. I think in evaluating how women did in 72 can best be started out with the tangible results of an election year. In other words, who won and who didn't win as far as women who were running. Ellen, do you have any statistics on that?

- Well, I guess right here in Kansas to start on a local issue, you might say women did a teeny bit better than they had done before. In the Kansas house of representatives, we now had four women. Two women, one this last November, Ruth Wilkin, who's a Topeka Democrat, and Ruth Rosati, who's a Wichita Democrat. Now the two women who are already in the Kansas house of representatives were notorious a little while back. You remember because they voted against the ERA amendment. So I would guess maybe now in the house of representatives and the Kansas House of Representatives will running neck and neck. We didn't elect also a woman to the Kansas Senate, a woman named Jane Myers from Overland park who is a Republican. We elected some other people in Kansas. If you want me to go ahead and list our guest list.

- Yes, go ahead. That's fine.

- McFarland won juvenile probate court judge ship and for the fifth division of the Shawnee County district court. And Ms. McFarland is believed to be the first district... The first woman district judge. And of course, that Mrs. Elvill Shanahan won the secretary of state with quite a large plurality, 107,000 votes.

- I think that one thing that's important is nationally as far as the state legislatures were concerned, there was an unparalleled number of women running. One important statistic is that previous to this election. there were 344 women in a serving in state legislatures. And that number has now been increased to 424. So there was an increase of about a hundred women as far as state legislatures across the nation are concerned.

- Yeah, of course it is women who are elected women elected-

- Right this is women elected.

- Who ran were defeated.

- Right. Also as far as the national scene is concerned. I think that it's fairly well-publicized as far as the results of the election are concerned. Cindy, do you have anything in particular on that.

- On the national level? Well, I think in the said, we kind of lost some of the incumbents there didn't win and there are zero women now represented in the Senate. However, in the house of representatives we have increased from 12 to 14, which is a slight gain but the net effect is zero.

- Right, we have a net gain as far as women are concerned in Congress of zero. Of course, one of the most interesting, two of the most interesting races involve the defeat of Senator Margaret Chase Smith of Maine and the Louise Day Hicks of Massachusetts representatives. I think it rather understand about their losses. Do either of you have any particular comments about why you think maybe Mrs. Hicks who had served one full term in the house. Or Mrs. Smith did lose as the incumbents and their particular areas.

- I guess that Mrs. Smith's opponent had been gearing up to win for a couple of years. Also, of course, Mrs. Smith was 74. And I understand also that economics in Maine may have contributed to her defeat. Of course, she's been there a long time since 1948, I guess, and it is a real loss.

- When I talked with Shirley Chisholm about this racist is one specific question I asked her, and she said that Ms. Smith was definitely losing her political stronghold. And that one fact was because of her age and a few other than her opponent was campaigning, much in advance, and Ms. Smith just didn't. Perhaps, she wanted out. I don't think anybody will ever be able to assess that.

- Well, I know in the past that it was her belief to not take campaign contributions and so forth. And maybe this was the year that she should do as far as really campaigning.

- Of course Louise Day Hicks was such a controversial person.

- Right, she was against busing, which I think really irritated a lot of people from her district. And I know missed several important votes from what I could gather, as far as the voting in the house. Of course, who did win is important but even more importantly is who didn't win. Who was running at the same time. I do want to mention, I'm sorry, before we get into who didn't win. Of course, to the more eloquent new members of the house will probably be Yvonne Bright White of California who will be representing California in that Los Angeles district. She was co-chairman of the democratic national convention, and I think really impressed the nation as far as her handmaid of that particular convention. Another one is, I believe it's Barbara Jordan of Houston who was expected to win in her area, and had served in the Texas legislature. I believe she is the first black woman to be elected ever from Texas. Maybe the first black. The first black and the first woman.

- That she had been President Pro Tempore the Texas Senate. That's another note talking about people who had won, why Colorado elected the first woman that they had ever elected to the Congress. A woman named Patricia Schrader, who as I understand it, is also a lawyer. And then another woman was elected from New York a woman named Elizabeth Holtzman who had been active in the women's liberation movement.

- Right, I think that those were both very interesting campaigns and very hard thought campaigns too. As far as those who didn't win I don't think it's necessary really to mention names but they did make an impact on the national scene as far as what they represented and so forth. Do either of you have any comments on just what did the increase in persons running nationally, what impact this will have on future elections? What impact this has on as far as women are concerned in politics today? Well, I just think that it's something that people aren't going to be able to avoid anymore. Women we're prominently in the news during the election campaigns. And I think that, the fact that they were running, they had backing, they had backing from other women. This is something that people are going to have to reckon with. And it was something that was brought out very well, in these past elections.

- Yes, it's always struck me that one of the important influences in politics has been the league of women voters because they've tried very hard to bring the candidates to the people. And also the candidate stands to the issues. However, the league of course doesn't want. It's, what should we say? It's board members running for office, but some of the new organizations like the political caucuses focus on running women for office. And I think that the increased number of women running for office will shift in emphasis. The women are not just listening to men candidate.

- Not just the workers behind the candidates.

- That's right. This is something that I've seen a lot more of even in women, my own age. Women who, I'm sure that several years ago, people my age didn't consider running and especially women but now several of my friends voice, the idea that they would like to run and that they're going to be looking into this in the future. I think that's really pretty exciting. It would be something that they could benefit and learn quite a bit from.

- It's been my impression that some of the local meetings I've been to, that the women go there and they don't say, Chisholm is a marvelous candidate, listened to his views. They say to themselves, gee, I wonder if I couldn't run instead of that person.

- I think this is a very important point that women are becoming to see themselves as capable to serve in politics. And whereas maybe they had seen it before but yet weren't quite daring enough to get past that shield that invisible shield that happened to be there. Don't you think that this really is just started the entire movement as far as politics are concerned and women realizing that they are capable. And even though I'm sure they did in the past, I think you know what I'm saying.

- So this is something referring back to Shirley Chisholm, again, she said that the reason she started out in politics was because she was tired of having her brain pick by men to get her ideas and then use those ideas to their political advantage. And she finally realized that this was exploitation that she might as well be getting credit for those ideas that she had in the past given to the men. So she decided to run. And as we all know, she was very successful.

- Of course we know. I think we need to give credit to the voters too. I think the voters in this last election showed themselves to be extremely independent. They showed themselves to split their tickets. They were honestly going for people and not for parties. This, it seems to me as I'm going to favor women because they're going to say to themselves, "I don't have to vote all democratic. "I'm gonna vote for the best candidate." And some of the best candidates are going to be the women.

- I think that's very true. And in many cases, one thing that also was especially important this year in a presidential election year were both Republican and democratic conventions. In the past women have always been extremely hard workers of both parties, but they have been hard workers at the local level. Those who go door to door and solicit and completely on the local level, this year there was a change and a significant change. And in both Republican and democratic conventions. Cindy do you happen to know any of the percentages as far as women are concerned?

- No. I do think that in general, the increased exposure that women had to the media was something that was very worthwhile. Well, there was an effort wasn't there to get 50% women and 50% men.

- There was primarily in the democratic there wasn't more or less I hate to use the term, but it has been used an overused a quote unquote quota system as far as the democratic convention was concerned. This was introduced in 68 by McGovern. The so-called McGovern reforms.

- As for the Monday morning quarterback and he was talking about how that's just lost the Democrats election. So I don't know what's going to happen to the quotas and the women's in the coming elections.

- Right, one thing as far as the Republicans were concerned they did not have any similar type reforms as far as anything written that should be followed, as far as electing their delegates. But there was an increase in the number of women who did attend the Republican convention as delegates or alternatives in 1968, 17% were women. And in 1972, this figure was up to 30% which without any set rules to go by, I think it's a fairly good increase. It's still not an equal balance.

- But why not?

- Right. There were four out of the 50 States who did have a 50, 50 balance.

- In the Republican convention.

- In the Republican convention, right? And Kansas had 35% women on there. So I think that-

- I was wondering though, in some articles things I've read, well, here's one about in Missouri the perception was made that although there was a large increase in the number of women and analysis of women in the Missouri delegation indicated that most were wise of official holders or of office holders off party officials. I wondered if this was going to continue, or if women more independent of already having political ties, if they were going to increase the number. That's a good question because there's no point urging women to be elected, if what you're saying is just to let someone who's already shown or who's already married to someone who's in there because he won't get any change.

- I'd like to see women being there is women rather than the wife of.

- One thing that I do think is interesting as far as politics are concerned and really directly related to politics and elections are the appointments that are made but on a national level and on a state level. I'm quoting from an article entitled, "Run Lady Run." Which is written by Alec Peterson. Women comprise 40% of the workforce, 53% of the population, 51% of the voters and hold less than 2% of the policy making jobs in the federal government. And I think this is a pretty important statistic. Ellen, do you happen to have any specific feelings on.

- Well, of course, right here in Kansas, one of the women who has been very interested in getting more women onto boards and appointments has been beating her about Tonganoxie, who recently appeared before the policy council of the Kansas women's political caucus, and described the abysmal representation of women on boards and commissions right here in Kansas. On the more positive side, I guess you all know that we just recently did get a woman from... A woman named Mary Hutton, who teaches at Bethel college. Who was appointed to the Board of Regents. And I understand she's the first woman on the Board of Regents since 1957. And she's only the fourth woman regent in Kansas history. That's a step forward. Some people have thought that Governor Docking we were just saying earlier that some people thought that Governor Docking had actually announced that it was a policy of his to appoint more women to boards and commissions here in Kansas.

- I think that was brought out in an article where off Governor Docking appointed Mrs. Wanda Liston Stern, who was a 25 year old employee at the Kansas Highway Commission. She was named personnel director of the same commission effective January 1st. And in the article that announces her appointment, the statement is made that he said her appointment is in keeping with Governor Docking's announced policy of giving women a larger role in offices of state government. So that might be something that we'd be looking for the future.

- I think this boards affect the lives of all of us. The boards that govern their highways for example, women travel on the highway. The Board of Regents, there are a lot of women in the state universities in Kansas and women certainly should have a voice in deciding these things that affect their lives as well as the lives of men. I noticed that one of the Board of Regents thought that the appointment a woman would bring a new view to the board of regions. I'm not sure I always agree with that, but I certainly think that the views of women shouldn't be heard.

- I'm interested to know what he meant by a new view. A new view of what?

- I guess that's not quite exactly what he said. But I do think that just stated a woman would look at things differently than a man would. Of course, I suppose we should think of this time of a woman who voted against the ERA in the Kansas house. So women don't always have new views.

- Of course, nationally, one of the goals of the Republican party is standing in its platform would be the appointment of women to the highest level positions in the federal government including the cabinet and the Supreme court. Two areas which women have been noticeably void.

- Yes, the national one political caucus, I know it was criticized, President Nixon recently because he did not include any women in his cabinet.

- I know there was a move to have... Hopefully Mrs. Bentley appointed, was is it the secretary of transportation? And maybe it wasn't that one I should have mentioned it. And I know that they had hoped that maybe the women's political caucus was behind her and helped them. Maybe she would be appointed to the cabinet. And of course, the last two times that there've been major appointments to the Supreme court women have been mentioned as possibilities. And so far there have been then. I would like to mention to our listeners that they are welcome to call in questions at any time, if they happen to have anything in particular. And we'll try to do our best to answer them. The number is 864-4530. And so if you have any questions we'd be glad to entertain them. One thing that I would like to get onto for just a minute is the role of the women's political caucus. Ellen, I know you're extremely active in it. And could you just kind of give us a little bit of the history of the caucus and what its goals are as far-

- Well, the goal of the caucus is... It's kind of twofold. First of all, we want to support women in running for office and local caucus here in Lawrence, tried very hard to get a woman to run for the Kansas legislature. And then the other equally important thing it seems to me is to get women appointed to the boards and commissions. Because a lot of power does come from being on a board and commission. You can argue, I suppose that to be one member of the board of regions is certainly as powerful as to be one appoint 145 legislators in the Kansas house. Of course the hope there is that once we get someone in they will strive to see that other women are appointed.

- There will be another women and more. A woman who is running for office maybe not last year, but soon until recently has had to combat a whole host of prejudices including the fact that she's too aggressive and she's hysterical. And she's not able to physically keep up with the demands of the political law office and so forth. And one thing about the caucus is it hopes to support women who want to run for office so that it will assure them that they do have-

- I think this is very important because just the numbers that we're running this year, many of them ran on the urging of the women's political caucus. And with the backing of a caucus and either locally or statewide, or even nationally that many of the many would not have run. Had they not had that extra little push from behind, to encourage them.

- Yes, this is true. The thing that is really interested me about the recent elections has been mind growing realization of how very much money is needed to finance candidates. This of course kind of goes along with drawing that common cause is beating to get candidates to declare their sources of money. If candidates were not able to accept money from dubious causes, then they wouldn't have so much money and people who were not financed so well would be able to win. But right now it takes a lot of money to win even a very small office. It's kind of frightening really how much it does take to win. One thing that I was interested in was, if a woman is interested in running or if she... Or even those who did run, maybe this last November, does a woman need the endorsement of the women's political caucus in order to be effective? I know that they were cases this last fall where some women were not endorsed by the caucus, either because of their views towards the ERA or whatever. How necessary is it to have that backing? Or is that kind of a loaded question.

- I guess from purely a pragmatic point of view why it's not necessary at all to have a political caucus? The backhand of the political caucus I was interested to read. There is a woman named Mary Gant from Kansas city who was the first woman elected to the Missouri Senate. And she was quoted as saying that she tried to stay away from the women's liberation movement because she felt that would hurt her. And she came out against for example, liberalized abortions. She said the fetus had rights too. And one of the things that she was trying to do is to broaden the issue. So she was not in fact, running on a point which could be easily identified as a woman's live lane. So I would say it was not necessary at all to have endorsement of the political caucus. I liked the thing that is Gloria Steinem who said that she wouldn't be glad to travel anywhere in the country to support any woman who was running for office, or she would also stay away from them, and not support at all.

- I think that this is one thing I was kind of interested in. I had not heard that particular quote of hers. But I had read articles about, the Congress did not endorse some women at all as well.

- Well don't you think that that's good and lending credibility to the caucus? That they're not after just anyone who happens to be a woman-

- Right, I do.

- That's best kind of person.

- And the best candidate too.

- Of course also the caucus is bi-partisan and this presents some tricky examples. If, suppose for example, you were to end up endorsing three candidates and they were all Republicans. Well, this would make the democratic members of the caucus unhappy or vice versa.

- I would like to mention again, that if you have any questions that you are welcome to call us the number again is 864-4530. Going on, as far as the caucus is concerned in the election, I think that it is good to realize that women are being noticed and the issues that women are concerned about are being noticed. Don't you think that really this was the greatest thing that came out of this recent election in convention year?

- One thing that I thought yes, I agree with that. And I think that one of the big accomplishments was that people who watched the convention saw women, they saw them working effectively. They also heard testimony and were made more aware of the issues rather than which might help to explode the myth of the women bra burner type of image which has done quite a bit to hurt the women's movement.

- Yes, it's impossible to say, for example, for viewers who looked at Yvonne Burke, who was the person who was chairing the democratic convention I hear is a very capable woman. She's really running that convention very smoothly. Thousands of viewers saw. And that's really good for the image of a woman being a capable person.

- I think also Patricia Harris at the democratic convention made a very favorable impression on her audience and people that were watching. One interesting thing that I would like to bring up on Barbara Walters show, Not For Women Only. One week, they did deal with the question of women in politics. It's on 6:30 in the morning for any of you who are early risers and on this panel were Lenore Romney and Patricia Harris and that Baris Fidan, and I can't remember the other people who were on it. But they weren't asked a question on if they felt within the near future, like the next four years or eight years, they would be a candidate, a woman candidate for president at one of the major parties, either democratic or Republican. I'm just interested in what your individual views are. As far as if that's concerned.

- I think we'll start with a little tokenism and get a woman for a vice-president, that's your candidate first. Actually, I think that's a more viable position.

- We have to realize too, that Shirley Chisholm actively campaigned and which might lend a little bit of an edge in getting a woman into the presidential nomination.

- Especially if you've got a party which is very confident of itself. For example, I think that the Republican party this time could easily have stood a woman on the ticket. Gained a lot of admiration for it.

- I think so too.

- And would not have lost at all.

- I think it's interesting to look at it and the possibilities that are involved in it. We are going to have to close right now due to the basketball game, which follows immediately. I hope that we have covered the topic sufficiently for you. And I think that we are more or less agreed that women have made a definite impact as far as politics are concerned, as far as decision-making, and as far as society as a whole are concerned. Primarily because of the issues that were raised in this particular campaign and this particular election. And we think, or we tend to think that this is going to increase and continue. And we hope that those of you who are listening who are interested in politics, will certainly do something about that and not just think about it. We hope you'll tune in next week for the Feminist Perspective. Next week, the topic will be, women in the arts and it will be moderated by Linda Jones assistant Dean of women at KU. Thank you.

- Listen again, next Monday at seven for A Feminist Perspective.