- Just take a minute. - Yes. - I'd like to welcome you to "A Feminist Perspective." - Let go for half an hour. - This weekly radio broadcast is sponsored by the Women's Resource and Career Planning Center, the program and information service at the Dean of Women's office, 220 Strong Hall. Tonight's broadcast is part four- - That current machine. - Of a four-part series on "Women in Economics." - Goddamn, a what a piece of shit. I'm sorry y'all threw that out, some type of a video here. - Our specific topic tonight is women and insurance programs. - 'Cause we don't really get that though. - "A Feminist Perspective" provides a forum for women to speak publicly on issues of concern to them. - What, do you need this? - And also inform other women and men of the movement- - No, I was just asking it, if we don't use it, really, or use it really rarely. - And substance of women's and men's lives. The Women's Resource and Career Planning Center contains large amounts of information- - I can see why nobody wants to use it. - Government documents, magazine articles, research studies, and books pertaining to the many aspects of the women's movement. - I gotta go check my lot. - We would like to invite you to come in and browse- - See ya. - Or take advantage of the materials which can be borrowed. That's in 220 Strong Hall at the University of Kansas. - I wish there was some way I could speed this up. - We have three guests this evening- - Hell, that isn't, you know, that's too bad that you can't do that, just fast-forward the whole interview, all right, you know, what the hell? - Really, really. - And I'm talking about me. - I'm with the Hayes-Santi insurance agency at 20 East Ninth Street in Lawrence, Kansas. I am an underwriter, and the agency supervisor there. - An underwriter. - All right, our second guest is Carolyn- - So this would be a name for insurance person! - Yeah. Underwriter, my ass. - I am the wife of a, I am a widow of a KU faculty member. And I'm here to discuss some of the experiences I have had with the health programs under of the state of Kansas plan for state employees. - Our third guest is Linda J. Jones. - I'm assistant dean of women at KU as well, and I have been working on this four-part series, "Women in Economics," that we have had. We've talked about women as consumers, women in credit, and our program last week was on women in Social Security. So I'm here tonight to kind of follow up with some of the other things that we've talked about, and see how this fits in, as we discuss this final issue of concern to all people, and especially tonight, to women. - Well, Linda, why don't you give give us a little bit of background of what makes insurance so important for women, and why is it a problem area, in your view? - Well, I've done a little bit of facts and figures type reading, and for example, with health insurance, we spend, as Americans, over $75 billion per year on health care. And even with this astronomical figure, Americans seem to be receiving poorer care, and dying earlier than individuals in other industrial nations. We spend 150% more today on healthcare than we did 10 years ago. And I think that's a little higher than the rate inflation for other things that have been happening now, such as standard of living, and all of that. Hospital charges in the past decade have tripled. And since 1960, doctors' fees have gone up 40%. - But 1970's was promising. - Pardon? - Why does she say there's there's not three dollars a continent around here? May I ask what's going on? - Three oh? 98. Uh-huh? - And that leaves the other approximately 60% to be taken up by individual, nor mind fear. And was only a cost coming out in the end, so, it's quite a concern- - And then it just idles. Okay. What kind of machine is it? What type of speech does it have on it? Does it have a thing you pull and you push out, or is it just a thing you turn back and forth? Okay, is it an Ampex machine? Okay, yeah, that just happened to one of ours last week, we just kinda, okay, we'll be over to fix it. 'Cause all you have to do is kinda fiddle with it to get it back in gear. But we'll get over there as soon as we can, and today, more than likely, and see if we can't get it running again. Yeah, sure thing. Bye, Mike. - In three kinds of ways because of insurance policies on their husbands, where they are dependents, or where they are not breadwinners in their own right. And I believe that Mrs. Anderson has some things to say about that. - The problem that I discovered under the insurance plan for Kansas State employees was a complete surprise to me, and when my husband passed away. I went down to the university, in order to renew my health insurance, which meant paying for the insurance during the summer. And they accepted my check immediately after his death, and said that I would be covered, my health insurance, and I had nothing to worry about. My son also checked, and I was told it was absolutely covered. Then I made a trip with my family to Colorado, and came back late in June. My husband died in early May, without mowing in the yard, and the person in charge of retirement at the university called me, and told me I had no health insurance. I turned off the mower immediately, thinking it was something that might cause damage, and began to telephone, and at that time, I was still not 65, so I was not eligible for that type of insurance. I finally found temporary insurance that was extremely expensive. Now, I had, my husband had paid into the health insurance program at the school he taught at before here, and here, for 30 years before he passed away. And there was no question in my mind that like, I paid, I could continue. - But that wasn't the case. - That was not the case. They first sent me a statement of a law that was passed in '62 or '63, in which it said children were covered, but widows not. I couldn't locate this particular copy. I think my lawyer still has it, I turned over a lot of that material. Then May 26th, 1971, this opinion was handed down by our present attorney general. And this is a question that was asked him. May a dependent of a deceased state employee, retired state employee, or totally disabled former employee retain coverage under the state employee health and accident plan? And the answer is a flat no. I worked through our local senator, and he, through the commissioner of insurance, and I have this further statement. May I respectfully point out that the health and accident program covering faculty members at KU is not a separate program, but that these members are covered under the state of Kansas plan for state employees. Therefore, your proposal would not only be applicable to the faculty members of KU, but would encompass the entire state employee group of some 25,000 people. I have personally reminded that husband has insurance, and has his wife and family covered, and one could think of them going out for a drive, and in a serious car accident, the husband being killed. And there would not be any insurance if he died first, for the wife, if she were badly injured. Well, this seems like a gross inequity, as far as I can see, why hasn't something been said about this in the past? Or are you the first one who has had it hit you so suddenly that it may touch an impression on you, or have any of your friends been in this position before, that they found out they weren't covered? Oh yes, they have been, and there are members here are in Lawrence, some of them have gone back to work, some have enrolled in a course at the university, so they could be insured under the student health program, the student coverage program. They've done all sorts of things. - Sounds like where there's a will, there's a way. - But I was at the point where my age was such that it was not easy to pick up insurance then. - Well, this is so true, and by the time a person is in his 30s or 40s, a lot of them are already disabled in some respect, and can't obtain a health care policy that will cover them for everything. There might be some exclusions on the policy, and particularly in a woman, where she is apt to have some area in her past medical history that an individual company wouldn't wanna cover her. And at the age of 62, I can see you were faced with a very, very severe type problem. And how did you, you were able to get a policy without- - I got a temporary policy with the company that was carrying the university at that time. - Oh, I would think this would be the best way to go about it. - But that was only, I got it that afternoon, yet I had to have a friend that was working with the insurance company, and I did get, but it was very expensive, and lasted for only three months. It would not cover me after I went into Medicare. I have been able to get additional policies, well, I had it before. One through the AAUW, their health policy, which, so far as I know, is very good. And then also retired teachers. Those two I have, they still are not nearly as adequate as the policies that we had at the university. - Well, those two policies are on you, in terms of what you had done. - That's right. - In your own professional experience. - That's right. - AAUW is the Association, American Association of University Women. And because you were a member of this, you were eligible. - And there's an interesting thing about that policy when you travel abroad. You know, most health insurance is not effective, including, at least, this was true a year ago, the insurance that is carried by the state of Kansas on their employees. And the AAUW insurance does take care of you, and beyond Medicare, and then of course, Medicare doesn't you any good if you're overseas. - Of course, this is the reason so many people, when they do go out of the state, they get a trip accident at time of coverage. Well, let me ask this, Mrs. Anderson, since you've done all this research, and you've run up against all of these things. What is being done now to correct this? Because obviously, something should be done. - Well, we worked on it during the last legislature. - Do you have a lobby? - No. - Nobody, no one, you haven't formed any sort of group? - No, only personal telephoning to- - Is anybody else helping you? - Yes, one other faculty wife has done a great deal, but we were so disappointed in the outcome. They did change the policy that is in effect here at the university last year. There was so much objection when a professor went on leave, like to Europe or something, his insurance didn't hold. And there was a change in the last legislature- - This sucks. - So that would hold. But the whole deal was so involved, that this didn't get into it. And those that have been left in this situation that I know would be perfectly willing to pay all of their own way, if they just had the right to continue on these policies. - Yeah, in your letter from Buncher Bell, he's talking about the 25,000 people other than the employees, and that are these people who would be survivors under this plan, or does this include the employees also? - I would suppose the employees, he doesn't say. But in the state employee group, he says, so that would be the entire 25,000. - Is he still making the point that there are too many people too include in this, that they don't think they can go to survivor benefits, or what? - No, he didn't think there would be so many to be included. - And so, it seems like a good idea. - Yes, oh, yes, it's simply a question of getting the bill through the legislature. - All right, how do you go from here? What do you, what can you do to lay the groundwork to get something done, because I certainly- - Well, you have the patience of a saint on any bill you wanna put through the legislature. - Well, the meantime, how many people end up in the same position you were in? - Well, plenty, and- - And it not only affects the women as widows, how about the women who are working at the university, who have their husbands covered under their policies? What if something happens to that woman? Then her husband and the survivors have no benefits, right? - That's right, that's right. - They won't be covered then either. So, this isn't a matter of discrimination from a female-male standpoint of view, this is purely discrimination of a survivor stand point of view. - It works out that way since the predominant, the majority of faculty members in it and who get coverage through this- - I'm sure it does, but there are a lot of women working at the university now, where it would affect them too, in the event of an untimely death. - Think, what kind of things should a woman be aware of as she looks through an insurance policy to figure out what she needs to be adequately covered? - It sounds like one thing that's lacking in this policy is the conversion policies that- - Right. And in other words, in any of your group policies that you acquire through working with an industry, there is generally a clause in the policy. It says, you may convert this policy to individual coverage at the end of 30 days. Or if you haven't done anything by the end of 30 days, then the company will generally drop it. But I know of one other policy where this couldn't be done, here in Lawrence, but most of the time, the people who are setting up coverage like this are foresighted enough to go ahead and include a clause like this. And it would seem to me that the people who set up the state plan were sort of nearsighted in the act that they act like what they're doing is taking the employee, now we've got an employee working for the university. And we're gonna keep him covered just as long as he's here. When he isn't here, that's it. But I would say that what they were thinking more of is somebody who leaves the university after a certain length of time, now, you probably would not want to give him a conversion privilege. But in the event of a death, it would seem that this is the type of clause that it should be in, that should be in the policy, so that, let's face it, a death is bad enough without being faced with a dilemma like Mrs. Anderson was in. She was too young to be included under Medicare, but she was actually too old to get a policy on her own, and I'm sure the rates are astronomical at her age. And it just doesn't seem like it's very fair, and I kind of wondered if there had been enough women on the committee that set up the state plan, if maybe somebody wouldn't have thought a little more deeply about this type of a conversion privilege for the woman or man. - That just explains it. - Well, for example, what can I do at this point? I'm a single woman, just starting out in a career, I may or may not be married, you know? I have no idea at this point. So, what would I do in terms of thinking about insurance coverage for myself? I'm totally dependent upon myself, I have no other source of income other than my profession. You know, what should I do? - When a woman is going out in- - I'm almost done with this. Yeah, I talked to Maggie, and she said that something was changed about it, but you have to record it over it to see it. If I tell you about it, 'cause there was nothing about it, there's nothing. - Really? - Seriously. - Hell, I'd know if you were recording over it, you were recording the other day. - Seriously, 'cause I asked her the same thing, I said- - Basic life insurance policy that she ought to buy, even though she may be picking up some group, and some trouble are coming that she can't work with. And the one thing- - Everything is weird, that's what it is. - She needs so badly is a monthly disability inequity policy. I happen to have been in the position myself where I became ill and had absolutely no coverage from any source. - One of these days, I'm gonna buy another one, have it converted to- - Workman's comp, Social Security, I'm left with a disability insurance policy that I would've had on my own life. I had no coverage whatsoever. - A long-range brand- - And I was a complete dependent on my parents. - They're pretty cheap. - Instead of buying one- - And I wanna never be put in that position again. - Everybody with Dolby- - I was already 25, but I guess I was 28 when I was happened. And for three years I was just completely a liability, as far as my folks were concerned. And if it hadn't been for them, I don't know what would have happened to me. So, every woman, no matter how young she is when she goes out, if she's on her own, and she is dependent upon herself to earn her own bread and butter, she ought to buy some type of a monthly disability income policy, so in the event that it happened, she's got her coverage. And as far as a life insurance policy is concerned, she should have foresight enough to be thinking about her own retirement. Not just because she might get married, but because if you buy the right kind of a life insurance policy, you're buying security for your own future. In addition to your Social Security benefits, you'll have some benefits at age 65, or if you're looking at it from a standpoint of view of what happens to whatever I own or whatever I have, when I, if I'm suddenly taken out of the picture, she ought to have enough for funeral expenses, so that nobody has to take over in the event that something happens to her. And if you buy life insurance at a young enough age, hospitalization insurance at a young enough age, you're not going to be paying an astronomical price for it. And- - That's a very good point. This is something that I have discovered. That if I were to purchase a life insurance policy now, the premiums, you know, and the monthly bills would be so much less than if I wait even five years. - And also, there's one way that a woman has a benefit from life insurance policy that the men don't have. Our insurance is cheaper. If you take the rate for a man of 28, and you deduct the woman's insurance at 28, I said it backwards. The woman's insurance at 28 is the same price as a man is at 25. So you just take a base rate for three months, or three years less, and you have her rate. So, we do get our life insurance cheaper because of the fact that actuarily, a woman is going to live longer than a man. - I understand that there are some women who are upset about this though, because at the other end, when they become 65 and they're ready to start drawing the benefits, they are given less money per month for their children because you'd expect you'd get more every month. And yet it takes the same amount of money for women's insurance that it does for men. I'm not totally, do you think that that is prevalent in life insurance? - As far as I know, if you buy a $10,000 life insurance policy, with a whole life policy, say, at age 65, the benefits for a woman would be the same as they are for a man. I'm not familiar enough with the life insurance end of it, and I couldn't give you a definite answer on that. That would be something that you might wanna find out a definite answer from some wise teacher. - I think that's something that a woman should ask about. - I am not a licensed life agent, and I intend to be, but so far, I have a general license, and this, of course, is in your casualty line. But there are so many things that you can do with a life insurance policy. It's a for sale, by the way. And in this day and age, a lot of people are trying to save money, but they aren't. And your Social Security benefits, as they are finding out, are not adequate enough to pay for, to keep a family going like they've been used to. During your working years, the Social Security benefits are not enough to compensate for retirement. - You're just putting it back in there? - No, they're recording it onto the cassette from that machine over there. - I see. - That will, in addition to your Social Security- - Wish I didn't have to, but- - It will help you also- - I'm just recording it on tape instead. - A life insurance policy is probably one of the best means of collateral. - Five minutes. - Entertaining a loan at a bank that you can have. You don't have to buy credit live on a loan if you have a life insurance policy that you can assign. - You gotta change things once. - Yeah, but it's no big deal, nothing like that. - And you know exactly what it takes to be able to get credit. - You know, this would certainly be an asset, as far as a woman was concerned, because the banks have yet to look at a divorced woman, or a single woman in the same light they look at at divorced man. - Who's that uppity broad? - And I cannot figure that out. - She's Peggy somebody- - Peggy, I had thought of- - From the Hayes-Santi agency downtown. - For 30 years, and I had no idea. I mean, health insurance. And I thought I was set up. - I can just imagine how you felt- - Well, I had to shut off the mower. - Well, I think that Mrs. Anderson has experienced part of the distinct kind of difficulties that women have had with insurance. Finding out that they, as dependents, do not have the coverage. Other women have discovered the discrepancies when they reach 65, a lot of women discover that because you have a uterus, that is equivalent to an act of God. You are not covered by the act of your uterus if you, for your health insurance, if you get complications in a pregnancy. - Much less for an abortion. - Yes, that, those kind of- - Heaven sakes! Program rated X. - I think there are, people have been- - Why don't you say cunt, honey? That'd really catch people's ear. - Yeah. - Or snatch, or whatever. - Mrs. Anderson is doing something excellent in- - This uterus nonsense. - Getting involved with legislation. What about the future of women in health insurance- - Or vagina or something. - But you are a rarity thing. You know, that uterus. - Well, fortunately, I had an opportunity to go to work for an insurance agency in New Mexico. - Preparations for descent. - And the general agency said no. - But in our conversation- - And I know it's got my feet wet that way- - Speaking of archrival, Missouri, 14- - And I found out it was a very, very- - J to Edwin Edwards, love. - Or style to even begin. - And looking back over. Get over at least- - And also, it was a challenge because there aren't too many women in the insurance industry. - Kansas- - Times have changed so much from then to now, that I was the agency secretary, so I did all the paperwork. - Whoa. - Been here now since 1962, in 1973, we have had a complete turnabout, and are after women in the insurance industry. - Been after women. The whole night. That's 15 years old now. - Get some experience here, if you wanna set up a practice, let's get you on line, this gets you excellent experience. Actuary, okay, get a degree in data processing, practically every big insurance company going down the road has a computer system going. And they're dying for people. - Going down the road. - That's right, as an underwriter. If you get your agent's license, you can sell insurance until you're 90. There's nobody saying at age 65, you have to quit. - Okay, come on, end this goddamn thing, time's up. - Just encourage women to look into this- - Time's up, lady. - So when the people come for interviews in the spring, check with the BD women's office, and see if there is anybody coming from a life insurance company, because the opportunity is there for a woman. And I think, as far as lucrative- - I wouldn't buy shit from you, lady. - It is a fascinating field to be in, as well as challenging field. - All right, that's why it said everyone, come on. - Woman can compete with man- - Everybody was laughing except her. - Wrap it up. - Can I borrow one of those things? - You don't have a man saying, you can't do this. - Somebody you told? - Yeah, you left it right over there. - Okay. - Why, I think that we are coming- - I think we certainly have. - To find out how important insurance is to a woman, what you can do in the area of legislation, and also, what you can do in the area of recruiting the future. I'd like to thank our guests, Peg Springer, Carolyn Anderson- - Oh, come on. - And Linda Jones, thanks for being with us tonight. And I invite you all to listen to "A Feminist Perspective" next week.