- [Host] Good evening. Welcome to Feminist Perspective. As the announcers told you, the purpose of these Monday evening programs is to provide a forum for women to speak publicly on issues of concern to them, and help inform other women and men of the movement which is remaking the shape and substance of women's and men's lives throughout the world. Our format consists first, of discussion by our guest panelists on a topic of interest to women. And second, an opportunity during the last 15 minutes for listeners to participate by calling with comments or questions. Our number is 864-4530. This program is sponsored by the Women's Resource and Planning Center, located in the Dean of Women's office. We invite you to call our office at any time for information or to inform us of your concerns. Better yet, come in person to talk or to use our constantly expanding women's library in 220 Strong Hall. Our subject tonight is "Women in Politics." And our guest panelists are June McMillan, Shirley Vaughn, and Nancy Hamilton. June McMillan is vice chairman of the Douglas County Democratic Party, Shirley Vaughn is vice chairman of the Third District Republican party, and Nancy Hamilton is a member of the City Commission, ran on a non-partisan ticket. Would you folks tell us how and when you first got interested in the political process? How about you, June? - [June] Well, I really started in 1956 when our Governor George Docking first started and he had asked me to help participate in his campaign. So that was the beginning. And I certainly have enjoyed every minute of it since and I've learned much, and in '58 was chosen to go back to Washington with the Third District Congressman to work for the two years he was there. And this was quite a thrill to me and to be in the House of Representatives in Washington, presented many, many challenges and a lot of experience that I could never have gained any place else. And to be there as a representative of Kansas really was a thrill. So it started quite a while ago. - [Host] Mm-hmm. How about you, Shirley? - [Shirley] I started in college like a lot of young people do today I think. I started working when Governor Arn was running for Governor of Kansas, and I was going to the University of, I went to Washburn University and I got involved with the College Republicans, and from then on I just worked with one candidate to another and by this involvement, I became more interested in the internal problems and the organization of the party. But it started with working with the candidate, and then... - [Host] Mm-hmm. How about you, Nancy? - [Nancy] Well, my involvement in politics really came very recently. I've been involved in League of Women Voters and other things, organizations in the community for many years. In fact I've been with the League, oh, somewhere between 12 and 15 years and much involved in like citizen participation and trying to get the laws you need and get the programs moving that you think are for the benefit of people in all levels of government. Then last year, in fact I've been in just about a year now, but when we had our last City Commission election we had a lot of candidates running and it seemed that we had more issues involved in other elections and some people urged me to run. A group in particular that called itself the Citizens Committee for the, oh, let's see, I can't even remember what the name was but for the, to urge the candidates to run. And after several weeks of conversation with them about that, I decided to try it. So that's why I'm here. - [Host] Well fine. I know that the topic, "Women in Politics" might lead some cynical people to ask what women were talking about other than on the local level and of course we don't have, there are many men here elected to office on local level. As you know we have two women representatives in the Kansas House and no women senators, and in the United States Congress, one woman senator and 11, I believe, members House of Representatives. And that represents a lowering of the numbers we once had in the House of Representatives. Are you, folks, noticing any change in the extent of women's participation in the political process? - [June] Well, we like to urge women to run and I think one of the best places to introduce women into politics is within their own county. Start on your grassroots level and kind of get their foot in and then maybe we'll be able to do more where it comes to the higher offices later. And of course we do have, our Secretary of State in Kansas is a woman. - [Nancy] That's right. I think, I'm finding that an awful lot of women are much more interested in the idea of running for office. I've seen one in the City Commission and of course we've had women on the School Board in Lawrence. I think we've always had a woman on continually for 10 or 15, maybe more years than that, and it takes a little courage to run but I think they're getting it. I think we're gonna see a lot more of this. - [Shirley] I think so too. I think the women have been a little frightened by the idea of running, or being involved in it, because of the time it takes. - [Host] Yes. - [Shirley] And most women back off when they have a family, because they think that they don't have the time, but more and more with the advances we had to date, there are more opportunities for women to get out of the home and in politic and campaign for other people even if not for themselves. I think that they're finding a little bit more time than they used to have. - [June] Don't you make this is probably why there have been more women on School Boards though, because they felt this was part of their family planning, more than going out and seeking other offices. - [Nancy] I think you're probably right June, and I think too that, I may be mistaken but I think a job like the City Commission takes even more time than the School Board. - [June] Well, sure it would. - [Nancy] And I don't believe I could do it if I had young children at home. I don't believe I could try it. - [Host] I'm wondering whether the state legislature, particularly one that operates the way our Kansas Legislature does, would really take any more time. - [Nancy] I'm not sure it would. - [Host] There is a, it needs really for a relatively short period of time and it's close to home for most people. I guess people out in Western Kansas to have a little, quite a little distance to go, but it seems like it would be good place. And we certainly need there, some women in there, in the state legislature. There's been a lot of interest recently in the selection of delegates for both the Republican and the Democratic Party. Are there differences this year from the way things were done in the past as to how delegates are selected? - [June] Very differently on the Democrats side. Previously, our local delegates were elected by the Central Committee, and they were sent to the District Convention. At the District Convention then your National Delegates were selected. Now at that time, there was an Executive Board, the Third District which consisted of the chairman, and the vice chairman of each county, and they selected a Nominating Committee to nominate delegates to the National Convention that were presented on the District Convention Floor, and they were voted on there. Now we're going to start in the local, what we call the Local Unit Conventions, and more, it's being a population between 30,000 and 75,000 we'll have three Unit Conventions. And all three will meet at the same time, the same day, which is this Saturday, at two o'clock. And in each one of those Conventions we will select seven delegates and seven alternates, or a total of 21 delegates in 21 alternates to the District Convention. - [Host] Well, what happens in the District Convention? - [June] The District Conventions is where we will select our national delegates, this year. - [Host] How many does Kansas have? - [June] They'll have 35. - [Host] 35 from the state in the Democratic Committee? - [June] Yes. - [Host] And how about the Republicans? - [Shirley] Well, we're basically, now, the Democrat Republican Party both, more or less elect their delegates the same way. However, we have a choice between a precinct caucus, where each precinct will have their own caucus and elect the delegates. Or they may have a County Convention, and we found that was easier for everyone to get together in Douglas County and have a County Convention. And it was open to all people. All people, registered voters, or the age that would be registered voters at the time of election, which I think, you were both right on that, for both of the parties. And then we pick our delegates, and then we sent them to the District, and our delegates at the District then pick the ones to go to the National Convention. We're just basically the same, all right? I think now that, through the new rulings on this Election Committee that they had in the legislature this past session, they more or less made this about, so we're doing it about the same, and we have 20 delegates to the, and 20 alternates to the National Convention. - [Host] Why? Is that just a question of custom, that has grown up that the Democrats have more delegates than the Republicans? - [June] No, we haven't always had more. - [Host] Oh yeah. - [June] In fact this is going to be rather delightful having lived in the state. And having it been known as the Republican State to finally and see the Democrats forth, come forth with a few more even delegates to the National, it's real fun. I did neglect to say that we choose six, our six national delegates at each one of the District Conventions and then five will be chosen at large at the State Convention. - [Host] Mm-hmm. - [Nancy] I'm curious to know in the past and now, what is the split between men and women in these delegates? Do you usually have about equal numbers? - [June] Kansas really hasn't been too far off on their percentages and this is one of the things that came out of it, the Magarant Commission Report and was changed to the Fraser Report, that we must have, not more than 60% of either sex- - [Nancy] I see. - [June] On the delegation. - [Shirley] We have, ours is, that we hope to have 50% women, 50% men. And with a certain percentage of this being the minority groups and the young people, we consider the young people, say from 17, 18 to 30, as the young people but- - [June] I think our age levels are about the same, Shirley. - [Shirley] And where it's approximately the same type of thing but they would hope, our National Committee would hope that we would have a balanced group. I mean of 50% women, 50% men. - [Nancy] Shirley, how long has this been true then and particularly then with the emphasis on young people and minority? - [Shirley] Well, the new election of the 18-year-olds I think has had a great deal to do with this. But, I don't know. We've always ideally would like to have had it this way but, it's just become, it's been stressed more in this past election and I think it is the 18-year-old vote and the young people. - [Nancy] Yes. - [Shirley] And, because women are becoming more involved, I think this has something to do with it too, that they would like to see ideally this is a way, that our National Committee will hope, that each state will do that. Have it so that there'll be- - [Host] So both of you, both parties are trying to be as representative as possible of the entire electorate which is- - [June] I think so. - [Host] Because every time I hear people talking about the young people or minorities I have to remember that they're all either men or women- - [Nancy] That's true. - [Host] That's sort of the basic division. Probably it should be men or women. If it weren't fair you'd get the men and women minorities of all kinds too. - [June] We would hope it would be like, you do what, like we do with our vice chairman and the chairman of your counties, that if you have one man that's a delegate, we'd hope that his alternate would be a woman and you try to work that way, that is often so that they would have a certain percentage. - [Host] Are there very many chairmen who are women? Or how does that actually work out? - [June] We have several but then the percent is so small, really, too. - [Shirley] Ours, of course most of ours are vice chairman, our women. - [Host] Yeah. - [June] I think. - [Shirley] We agree with that. We have several out in Western Kansas but I'm not sure, there aren't very many. - [Host] Hmm-mm. Hopefully at sometime that'd be kinda a 50/50 too? - [June] Well, I think this is one of the things that we just haven't asserted ourselves enough to take on the responsibility of being a chairman. - [Host] Hmm-mm. - [Nancy] It is work. - [Shirley] It is, and there are a lot of things involved. - [Host] But we don't have much evidence that women aren't willing workers I take it, and they, but they've played a very different role from what they seem to be beginning because- - [June] I think women have to be asked to do things more now and once you ask, maybe you'll get two or three volunteers if you bother to ask one woman. But it has been hard for them to step forth and rather take the aggressive role, I think, in volunteers. - [Host] Well, don't you think they have really helped men understood an awful lot about what was going on? - [June] I don't think they have. I think they've felt that they've been held down by the men, that because, remember a long time ago politics weren't even discussed in front of women. The men went to another room. And so we're just kind of coming into our own now. - [Shirley] I think women have started. I think we're becoming more involved, more... But I think women nowadays are reading, have more time to read than a man with his job and everything, and most women are pretty verbal, and they kind of wanna, I know that's how I became involved. If you'd like to complain, then I feel like you should be involved. That's right. - [Shirley] And you don't have a right to complain if you aren't willing to sit at home and do nothing. - [June] Yes. - [Shirley] And I think maybe this is where women had started out a lot of but, reading and talking among themselves and being interested and I think, now, this is where it kind of snowballs. And maybe that they'll get more involved. - [June] All right, and don't you think television in presenting so many issues now gives women much more of a chance to understand rather than just hearing maybe her husband explain his views to her, that she can see actually a lot more? - [Host] I mean too, that there's been a kind of a mystique about politics of something that was very secretive and very complex and, just a discussion, such as the answers you people gave tonight to the way in which delegates are chosen, up until the state women's political caucus, I didn't know that either. If anyone had asked me how are delegates chosen, I suspect I would have thought, I don't know what I would have said, but I would have thought, that it was in a back room somewhere where a group of politicians go together and decide how it's done. This sounds very open. - [Nancy] An old smoke-filled room. - [June] I think it is now. I think it used to be smoke-filled rooms where your delegates were selected. - [Shirley] I thought it must be in the Central Committees? It used to be that the Central Committee did more of this choosing. - [June] Right. - [Shirley] And it did eliminate a lot of people from becoming involved but I am so pleased to see the open meeting where everyone is involved and we both have done this and I know, you were talking about it earlier, that this can, very definitely the new trend is to open it up to everyone. - [June] And I think it should be and I think it always should have been, but, you know, sometimes you just have to battle these things out until you can get it. - [Shirley] I still think it comes back to the 18-year-old voter. I think the young people are interested and they derive- - [June] I think you're right, Shirley. - [Shirley] And I think the more inquiry they've stirred up the interest of the older people, and they say, "Well, let's give them a chance." - [June] And then they do like to get involved and as you said earlier they're the best campaigners in the world. - [Host] And they're not afraid to ask questions, so. - [June] They are not afraid. - [Host] But it is time for our listeners to call in with questions or comments. If you'd care to do so, our number is 864-4530. We'll keep on talking, till we get a call. What's your opinion of the women's political caucuses that are forming? Seeing a point in it? - [June] I think it sounds very interesting and hope that this would bring out more women. Now I have not been able to attend the meeting that was here, the northern one in Wichita, but I would like to at some future date when they have them. - [Shirley] I would hope that if they do nothing more than inform women, 'cause most women go home and inform their husbands. That's really- - [Nancy] That'd be good point too. - [Shirley] I do think that men don't have the opportunity or the time, the average working man doesn't have time to know, and if nothing more than they can give them, the viewpoints of what's going on and let them be aware, because, and by your relating it to them, this way they're going to know what's going on a lot easier, I think. That's why I think there's caucus where the people, where the women get together and discuss this, it's very important. - [June] And frankly I think most of the men, or the ones that I know in our political dealings really appreciate the women working with them. They're glad to see women volunteer. They are. - [Nancy] It's good for the women to develop a little confidence. This is part of what's been lacking and when they get together and talk about this, I think they realize that there's no magic in this, it's hard work and a lot of study, and I think it makes the more competition for offices whether it be between women and men or young people and older people, the more it keeps everybody on his toes to make a good presentation. And I think that makes good politics. and I hope good government. - [Host] That's right. I mean the only person that gets office- - [Nancy] Right, if you don't get involved in what happens in our legislative bodies and local government or state or national, that's what it's all about, you know. Because the politics is kind of a game, but the whole point of it is to provide laws and a framework to hang our civilized society on. That's why we get together and legislate, so we can live together in the best possible way. - [June] I think- - [Host] Best people, that we can let men or women to do that though? - [June] I think the best way, that I have found, it is so hard for a woman to become involved in politics. If they say, "Well, go down to your County Chairman, and let them," you know. Because if there is an election right at hand, it's hard for them to really give them something to do. I have found, how I became involved in politics. You find the party that suits your needs, then you find a candidate, and then you work for him. You start with a candidate, 'cause there's always work for a woman to do and they desperately need work. Well, every candidate who runs for any office needs the help. Therefore, you become involved a little at time. You know what's going on. Then your circle of knowledge becomes wider and wider as you go along. And I do encourage women to find, or men, either one, men and women, to find a candidate, and young people especially. I would like to see college people take, get a candidate that they really feel they're interested in. And they're, like we were talking, they're tremendous campaigners, and get out and work because this is a way you get involved. - [Nancy] This is something too that I think you girls who've worked in the political party system don't quite realize that when you run for a local office that is non-partisan, you don't have anybody behind you. And those people who urged me to run, I very definitely said, "Will you help me?" I mean, I didn't feel that I had the money to support a campaign and do the advertising. In fact it was a shock to me to find out it took money to run a campaign. And I didn't, if you don't have people working for you, I don't care whether you're in a party or out, you're not gonna get elected, but you don't have any natural framework to hang this on if you're not running on a party ticket. You have to gather your forces on your own and- - [June] But that might be a little easier way to ask people though, Nancy, if you're not, you know, having to sort out a Democrat or Republican but you could ask anybody. - [Shirley] Yes, I'm sure it has right, and I don't know that. In fact it's just been since we've run into our sales tax problem that I've known the politics of the people on the City Commission. Believe it or not that just doesn't come up. And I'm very grateful for that. We have enough items, we deal with things that are very close at hand. And if you throw in the politics of a decision into these local items, I think it would just tear you apart really. - [June] I don't think this city needs party politics. - [Shirley] No, I don't either. I think it would be a real handicap. - [June] I do too. - [Nancy] I do too. - [Host] How much non-partisan politics actually exists? What, how many positions are there for which you can run, without running on a party, or with a party? - [Nancy] Well, I think locally, only locally as far as I know, and then the School Board and the City Commission. Now there are many appointed offices in government that are very important but if you wanna run, run for an election. - [Host] Has that always been true? Is this some recent development? - [Nancy] Now, this I can't tell you, whether, Shirley, you may remember in June, before we had our city-manager form of government. - [Shirley] Well, it seems to me like years ago when we had our mayor-council, didn't they run on party? - [Nancy] I wouldn't be surprised because that dates back from 1951, and we were here then- - [June] Well I should be able to remember that and I don't. - [Nancy] Well I, at that point, my husband was a graduate student and I was trying to help him get through school and I wasn't really worrying about living in Lawrence on a long-term basis. We didn't really expect to be around here this long. - [June] Because I can think back to several of our mayors and then you know, well this was our Democrat Mayor and this was the Republican Mayor, so they must've run on a party. - [Shirley] I would expect that could be true. - [Host] Hmm-mm. You know, when you were talking about involving young people, it suddenly occurred to me that, because young people do a considerable amount of moving around, especially in their 20s, I just remember my annoyance of having been denied the right to vote for the president of the United States the first two times that I had an opportunity to, because I had not lived in the place long enough. Now haven't there been some changes in that too in our laws concerning who can vote where? - [June] Well, now anybody can vote in a presidential for the president and vice-president. Wherever you are you may register to vote for those. - [Host] And that's a recent development, isn't it? - [Shirley] Last year actually was the first time. - [June] Four years ago was the first time. - [Host] Well, my first vote was considerably before that. - [Shirley] But you could send your votes, notarize them and send them through. - [June] Absentee, absentee. - [Shirley] Right, right. That's what we did. - [June] But this seems so hard for people to do. You know, you want to just go on election day and vote and not worry about having to have mailed it in two weeks ahead of time. - [Shirley] And you want to encourage people to go to the polls to vote. - [June] You know, I think the students at the university for instance do have a problem about the voting. If they want to register here, that you see a lot of them then that would not even be in town to vote in a primary. So they wouldn't be here to vote. And at home then, if they've registered here, they couldn't vote at home. So this is the decision that the students have to make. - [Shirley] They can vote absentee. But of course that means notarized application, I guess for the ballot and then notarized ballot. - [Host] We should say though that even the term "notarized" has some implications for people. There are people who think that's a mysterious process, too. I had a paper notarized today and I asked my secretary to find me a notary. And she reported back to me that, you know, practically every other office had someone, no charge, right? - [Nancy] Well now, maybe on the campus, can the students have this done without a charge? - [Host] Oh yes, uh-huh. - [Nancy] Well, I think that's something that should be emphasized. - [Host] That county recruiter was in Strong Hall today registering students- - [Nancy] Really? - [Host] Until he had- - [Nancy] This is the week that Douglas county's working at registration. - [Host] Well, I think that's wonderful. I read of places that are terribly concerned about this youth vote and considering how well-informed youth are, it strikes me as very strange that anyone would would worry about their part in the political- - [June] I'm not sure why they're really concerned. - [Shirley] I'm concerned that, you know, that- - [June] That we won't have enough? - [Shirley] I have a feeling that those are, that from the polls that I have seen taken that we don't have enough of the 18-year-olds registering. I'd love to see more of them registering. - [Host] Well, I hope we can reach young people other than the college students too. You know, after all, not a lot of high- - [Shirley] You see, there'd be a lot of high school students that are eligible to register now. - [Host] And young working people, they certainly... There is one thing I'd like to do, hear your comment on, what I hear primarily from young people is a hesitancy to declare that they're either Republican or Democrat. They like to think of themselves as independents. What does this mean to you? Do you think they should get connected with a party or does it really matter? - [June] Well, you almost have to, don't you, Shirley? - [Shirley] Yes, I believe- - [June] To really get involved, you have to choose a party. And really by the time they're 17, they've studied enough to know or should have, to know people, and maybe to which platform they want to follow. Of course, frankly I think our platforms even are getting to be more alike all the time nationally. It's harder to tell. - [June] It is hard to tell. - [Nancy] Well, and then you're not locked in. You look at a man like John Lindsay and you know, you can change. That's right. - [Shirley] Well, you can change if you have a- - [Nancy] So right, it isn't for the rest of your life. Many times it is, but it doesn't have to be, if you feel differently. - [June] This is one of the reasons though, and you know, in a primary, so that you really can select a slate of candidates. - [Nancy] Yeah. - [Shirley] Mm-hmm. - [June] And then in the general I imagine most of the people cross the lines frequently. - [Shirley] Well, they must because we want to elect people based on this- - [June] That's right, that's why we have the general- - [Shirley] So this is the way of being independent. If you want to vote for- - [June] Shirley, I might ask you, how do you feel about an open primary? - [Shirley] Well, would it get rid of our political parties altogether? - [Host] You mean like they do Wisconsin? - [Shirley] I think the way they- - [June] Well, you do not have to be branded. You see in Kansas, you know, you are only allowed one ballot. Now, do you want it as the general, as it is in the general where you can cross the lines or- - [Shirley] The only problem I see with that is that in this day and age, to be very honest, you have to have someone, like we were talking about, behind you. - [Nancy] Yes. - [Shirley] You need financial support, you need backing, you need every kind of this survey. It's hard for someone to, who are opened up, to not have a party behind them. I think that they, you definitely need someone. You either pick the people that you like the best or the party you like the best, but it doesn't give you a chance to get some, gain support. And you- - [Nancy] What happens in Wisconsin though? Because I go to the polls in the primary and I usually have at least one candidate on the party that I'm not registered in. That I'd like to be able to vote for. I mean, I have a whole group. Usually I have a majority in the mother party I'm registered. And then I always wonder, well, I wonder if this one person that I really want to see get in, is not going to make it. And if I ought to switch and I've never done this, but I, I've felt it was a dilemma. - [Host] Well, we can ask the people from the other party to vote for them. - [June] That's right. - [Host] There's something I don't understand, though, Shirley, and as I understand the Wisconsin plan, you're giving both the ballots and no one knows which one you throw away and which one you use. Isn't that true? - [Nancy] Oh, I thought you could vote for some of either party. Is that the way it goes? - [Shirley] This is the way I thought- - [June] I didn't realize there were two ballot. - [Nancy] I didn't know. - [Shirley] It just keeps your registration secret then. In other words, you still only vote for all Republican or all Democrat candidates. - [Host] Well, of course you don't really know- - [June] I think you were in a terrible dilemma then, if you were a candidate, you wouldn't know who to go to. - [Host] Well, of course the candidates are still running on a party platform or they're running as members of a particular party. Yeah, it's just that, well, for example, in Wisconsin I guess the vote tomorrow is- - [June] Yes. - [Host] That I heard the governor talking this morning and he said that the, well he was asked what would be the effect on the vote? One of the things that we're concerned about is that since Nixon was unopposed, that many Republicans would enter the, would really interfere as they would with the Democratic. I believe our time is up. I certainly appreciate your coming tonight. It has made a great contribution to our program and we hope that you'll all be listening again next Monday evening. Thank you for listening. - [Radio Announcer] This has been A Feminist Perspective. Tune in again next week for another in this series of live programs. It's 41 degrees on Mount Orient at 7:30 p.m.