Janusry 15, 1939 fhe H,O.A. Basketbei1 Tournament Committee has officially designated San Francisco ae the place for the weetern play-off for dietriets 6,6,7 and 8. Thie play- off tournament wil! be maneged by myself as chairman of the esighth district. The San Francisco Feir ig sponsoring the event. They have underwritten the full expenses for ell the teams which will conpete in the tournament. In addition, fifty per cent of the net proeeeds will acerue to the account of the N.0.A.4. Full details vill be sent to you at a later date. The tournament wes originally scheduled for March i7 and i8, but because of comp ications, has been shifted to the detes of arch 20 and 21. Condneting the tournamsnt on these dstes, first of the week, will neces- Sitate, accordi to our estimate, one dys lese absence from school for the farthest travelling teams, For this reason I hardiy fee] that there can be any objection to p sying at this tims. These later dstes, however, are subject to the spprovai of the tournsment committee, but I anticipate no difficulty in this resect. fhere is greet enthusiasm for this tournament here. A new pavilion is veing built om Treasure Island for Sports. This will hoid in excess of twelys thousand Spectators. The newspapers are thorouchiy behind the whole plan. Ye ean depend on their whole-hearted support. In cooperation with -he oublicity side of this project, will you please send me each weak ners atoriaes of the outstanding teans in your districts, so thst we may stert from the very beginning of the season to build up interest in the popular eatrants for this tournament ana the person &lities, Gvaches and piayers attached to these different orgenigetions? I will need your 199 per cent cooperation if I am to furnish the newspapers with the fosired publicity material, In addition, if there sre any news items which you think pertinent in this ¢ nneetion, please do not hecitate to send? them siong. It would seem to me that et the start it would be valuable for each dietrict to send in & statenent coneerning the probable strong teams in the erea, with inform tion about each. This, then, ean be followed up with the reeord of reeulte that occur during the season. I am counting on your gooperstion in this respect. Very gordisily yours, John Bunn Dean of Men OFFICE OF THE DEAN OF MEN STANFORD UNIVERSITY STANFORD UNIVERSITY, CALIFORNIA April 30, 1940 Dr. Forrest C. Allen University of Kansas Lawrence, Kansas Dear "Doc": ee This will acknowledge your letter of April 25. The re- commendation of our Tournament Committee with respect to the division of receipts from our NCAA tournament and the disposi- tion of the money which would go to the NCAA is still very clear 4 in my mind. The letter which Olsen sent to each of the district Ad chairmen this season contained a part of this recommendation. Since receiving your letter I have taken occasion to dis- 4 cuss in detail this whole matter with Bill Owens and also to go : over carefully the executive regulations of the NCAA. I. find that the regulations of our Committee are in conflict with the regula- tions of the Executive Committee of the NCAA in these particulars: 1. Funds may not be earmarked for any specific sport. Boxing, in the past, has requested the same arrangement as contained in our recommendation to the Executive Committee. 2. No sums from the income of tournaments or meets may be allocated to the Olympic fund, except as the Olympic Fund Committee with the approval of the Executive Committee may direct. 3. Funds may not be pro-rated to | competing teams except for actual expenses. 4. All funds are sup- posed to be deposited in the general fund of the NCAA without any restrictions or reservations placed on them. In view of the above, I can see how the Executive Committee Gid oppose our recommendation. It is my guess that our recommenda- tion, unfortunately, has never been submitted to the Executive Committee. This, of course, is a weakness on our part and leaves us open for criticism. It was my impression that our Basketball Rules Committee was given a full report by the Tournament Committee and that they approved the report. However, I have been unable to find any minutes substantiating this recollection. Since we have sent out information to the schools in the NCAA, and particularly to those which have competed in the tournaments, I feel that we will be placed in an embarrassing position if the NCAA Executive Committee does not permit us to keep faith with these schools, in spite of our negligence. It would be my opinion that unless the schools concerned would recognize our error and agree to abide by the regular NCAA rules, we should make a disposition of our funds for this year in accordance with the recommendations which were drawn up by our Tournament Committee, and that hereafter the whole matter should be cleared through the NCAA Executive Committee. ag Dr. Allen: #2 Bill Owens, while pointing out the NCAA regulations, main- tains an open mind with respect to the whole matter and is eager to have representatives from the Basketball Committee present. their case at the next meeting of the Executive Committee. It seems to me that this is a very fair procedure, and I suggest that it be earried through in accordance with Bill Owens! recommendation. You may recall that I was not in favor of the pro-rating of moneys to the competing schools over and above their expenses, but that I agreed to the recommendation in view of the fact that we were attempting to offset the influence of the Madison Square Garden and the Liston tournaments. It was our feeling that when we had defeated these two projects, then we could make other adjustments ef our finances. I still hold this opinion. Now with reference to Kansas! competing in Madison Square Garden. You know, of course, that I have never concurred with your views or those of the Big Six Conference on the matter of competi- tion off of the campus of one of the competing universities. Madison Square Garden represents the only place that many of the schools in New York can play. Regardless of the money angle, so long as ex- penses can be paid and so long as the games are conducted on a high plane, then I can't see how anyone could object to such competition. My Stanford team received much better treatment in Madison Square Garden then it did in several other places where we competed. The NCAA has no objection to this type of competition. As a matter of fact, Bill Owens told me recently that, in view of the fact that Madison Square Garden represents the home court of those New York teams, he could see no objection to playing there. I know that the members of the Eastern Intercollegiate frown upon this competi- tion and that they refuse to take their own teams into the Garden. This is because they have their own courts and also because they look askance at the personnel of some of the teams in New York City. It is rather interesting to note, however, that some of the Easter Intercollegiate teams have played in public halls. I have a feeling, therefore, that there is a bit of jealousy and aloofness behind their reasoning. Cordially yours, The National Collegiate Athletic Association PRESIDENT ACTING SECRETARY-TREASURER HONORARY PRESIDENTS PROFESSOR W. B. OWENS MAJOR JOHN L. GRIFFITH BRIGADIER-GENERAL PALMER E, PIERCE STANFORD UNIVERSITY HOTEL SHERMAN PROFESSOR CHARLES W. KENNEDY CALIFORNIA CHICAGO, ILL. MAJOR JOHN L. GRIFFITH VICE-PRESIDENTS MEMBERS AT LARGE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE Dean L. K. Nemirncer, Dartmouth College, First District Proressor C. E. BirHErMer, Gettysburg College Tue PRESIDENT AND SECRETARY Dr. E. LeRoy Mercer, University of Pennsylvania, Second District Director W. J. Bincuam, Harvard University Proressor P. O. BapGER Dr. A. H. Armstrone, Georgia Tech, Third District Prorrssor H. H. Kine, Kansas State College Drrector H. W. CrarK Director Franx J. McCormick, University of Minnesota, Fourth Proressor E. L. Larson, University of Arizona Presipent T. J. Davizs District Proressor T. N. Metcatr, University of Chicago Director R. A. Fetzer Dr. F. H. Ewernarpt, Washington University, Fifth District Proressor S. C. Parmer, Swarthmore College Dean L. K. NEIDLincER Proressor James C. Dottry, University of Texas, Sixth District Proressor H. C. Wittett, University of Southern Prorsssor L. W. St. Joun Prorressor R. E. MCWHINNIE, University of Wyoming, Seventh California Prorrssor C. C. May District Prorrssor C. C. May, University of Washington, Eighth District Stanford Univer sity, Stanford University, Calif. April 29, 19h0 Doctor Forrest C, Allen, Chairman, Research Committee, National Basketball Committee, University of Kansas, Lawrence, Kansas, Dear Doctor Allen: I was very much interested in your letter of April 24 and the report enclosed. I think the more such studies that can be made the better, and I believe that one of the finest things the N.C.A.A, can do, as soon as it is financially in a position to do so, is to encourage and support research of this sort. Such studies should be given as wide circulation as possible, and perhaps the chief function of the N.C.A,A, in connection with such matters, would be to serve as a clearing house for the dissemination of such studies and to give financial support to them where possible. In other words, we do not wish to supplant the work already being effectively done by other organizations, such as the Basketball Rules Gommittee is conducting, or as the @oaches Associations may want to undertake, There might be, for example, something in a study made by the Football Coaches, which would contribute a good deal to the basketball situation, Properly coordinated the work of the various groups could be made available to all the others, These are simply ideas for discussion and consideration, The suggestion that representatives of the Basketball Committee meet with the Executive Committee for discussion of some of our problems has met a fine response from the Executive Committee, I do not know as yet when our next meeting will be, but I will keep this matter in mind and see that the suggestion is carried ovt in the near future, I appreciate your letter very much and am fully aware that the coaches, through their associations, are doing excellent work in solving the problems connected with their games, Sincerely yours, W. B. Ow 8 earns eT WBO: AG THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY COLUMBUS DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICAL EDUCATION L. W. Str. Joun, Director April 26, 1940 Dr. Forrest C. Allen University of Kansas Lawrence, Kansas Dear “Phog": Sorry I failed to answer your query as to how the Eastern play-off came out. I just recently received a report from Paul Hinkle. This shows that the Eastern playeoff will net about $1200, after taking out, of course, all expenses for rental, etc. I settled with Butler on the basis of 10% of the gross. Very sincerely yours, Oe" He Ge Olsen Chairman, Ne CoAehe Basketball HGO:M Tournament Committee April 25, 1940. ou with the KansasCity tourmament, and I have are still paying bills and settling up loose ends of 2 mesg ginndh ee Ole a check for $5,000, and for $2506 that I have been unable to write you soonere | may could be earsarind for matatiall: than Posident were told fd Geek this nitiey OA tack te eanaaind tar taal Gis anid, “wall, Gat So been 4s tea” tg i qd apa fad acl i Hag ie ey fr ye, ee tad 3 afigis 435 gals ag tat ae ~ itd] yt ie A re iis an Ss . aun Hil are in a bad spot because the I.C A.A. wants all of we ident I said, Now and of > gaid that we heave Ned Irish just think you have got him whipped, bee college coaches in the country would resent the NWeCeisie taking the money and letting the boys qu@-theebeys and the athletic associations of the schools interested play for expenses . "You s alonee" Vhen we agreed that the NeCeAcke get 20% of these tournaments we were just giving the N.CeAsAs something to start one in my mind, : t & 4 » ® the competing teas should certainly got a part of ite : Confidentially, I told President Owens that I would go to Madison Square Garden where we could get the most moneys And that is exactly why I em going to the Garden. I wanted you to ta. CU ee at Se Hees Aree: | Sy alii Wie as eben i "take their money and cut it four ways for the four competing teans, : end in our wostern play-off we should divide the profits ts four ways among the conpeting teams, after deducting a sizeable sum for the Sd dike. and tn few the fhe ginpealt wi tid wedi heme larger. cut for the two competing teams, with the NeCeAc. ng their cute. “het Ole proposed was to take the ten teams, the four — eastern and the four western, and the two finalists, and give the NeCeleie quite a sum and then cut the reminder ten wiyse Frenkly, ot eo ee ee eee ee oi : iy This whole matter hasn't boon decided yet, and con. : conference vith President Owens, lire liny and the rest of the group, we didn’t get anywheree 1 [{BEB Be ad tm ve sour cone omitah rention te , pn Very cordially yours, | ee Director of Physical Education and Reoreation, FCAsAl hia Varsity Basketball Ceachs with these schools, in spite of our negligence. It would be my opinion that unless o 7 Bill Owens, while poimtoug out the NCAA regulations, maintains an open mind with res- pect to the whole mtter and is eager to have representhtives from the Basketball Committee present their case at the next meeting of the Executive Committee. It seems te me that this is a very fair procedure, and I suggest that it be carried through in accordanee with 5111 Owens' recommendation. You may recell thet I was not in favor of the pro-rating of moneys to the competing Dr. Allen: #2 Now with reference to Kansas‘ competing in Madison Square Garden. You know, of course, that I have never concurred with your views or those of the Big Six Conference on the matter of competition off of the eampus of one of the competing wiversities,. Madison Square Garden represents the only place that many of the schools in New York can play. Regardless of the money angle, so long as expenses can be paid and so long as the games are conducted on a high plene, then I ean't see howanyone could object to such competition. My Stanford team received much better treatment in Madison Square Garden than it did in several other places where we competed. The NCAA has no objection to this type of competition. As a mtter of fact, 3111 Owens told me recently that, ae gee Oe Fie ee Peihaek Square Santee represents te bene cours of Soup Dew York teams, he could see no objection to playing there. I know that the members of - Rastern Intercollegiate frown upon this competition and that refuse to take neir own teams into the Garden. This is because they have their own courts and also because they look askance et the personnel of some of the teams in New York City. It is rather interesting to note, however, that some of the Eastern Intercollegiate teams have played in public halls. I have a feeling, therefore, that there is a bit of jealousy and aloofness behind their reasoning. 5 Cordially yours, (Signed) JOHNBUNN Dean of Men. ce Tae Stenford University, California. April 29, 1940. Dr. Forrest €. Allen, Chairman Research Committee, National Basketball Committee, University of Kensas, Lawrence, Kansas Dear Dr. Alle: I was very much interested in your letter of April 24 and the report enclosed. I think the more such studies thet can be made the better, and I believe that one of the finest things the NCAA can do, as soon a6 it is financially in a position to do 80, is to encourage end support research of this sort. Such studies should be given ag wide circulation aw possible, and perhaps the chief function of the by other organizetions, such es the Basketball Rules Comittee. is conducting, or as the Coaches Associations may want to undertake. There might be, for exemple, some- thing in a study made by tho Football Cosches, which would contribute « good dese to the basketball situation. Properly coordinated the work of the various groups could be made available to all the others. These are simply ideas for discussion and consideration. ‘The suggestion that tives of the Basketball Committee meet with the Executive Committee for @isoussion of some of our problems has mot a fine response from the Executive Committee. I do not know as yet when our nest meeting will be, but I will keep this mtter in mind and see that the suggestion is carried out in the near future. I appreciate your Ytter very much and am fully aware that the coaches, through their associations, are doing excellent work in solving the problems comected with their gameses Sincerely yours, (Signed) W. B. OWENS resident. COPY April 26, 1940 Dr. Forrest ¢C. Allen University of Kansas Lawrence, Kansas . Dear Phogs Sorry I failed to answer your query as to how the Eastern play-off came out. I just recently received a report from Paul Hinkle. This shows that the Eastern play-off will net about $1200, after taking out, of course, all expenses for rental, ete. I settled with Butler on the basis of 10% of the gross. Very vienuitehe yours, (Signed) "OLE" H, G, Olsen, Chairman, N.C.A.A. Basketball Toutnanment Committee, April 25, 1940 We are still paying bills and settling up loose ends of accounts in connection with the Kansas City townement, and I have been so crowded for time that I have bem unable to write you sooner. A couple of weeks ago I sent Ole a check for $5,000, and while he was here I gave him a check for $250. So that makes a total of $5,250 to Olsen. My idea was that wé Should give the N.C.A.A. perhaps $7,500. You will recall, Johnny, that Ole told you that this money could be earmarked for basketball. When President Bill Owens came to Kansas City, together with Mr. May of Washington, we were told that this money could not be earmarked for basketball. Ole said, “Well, that is news to me." You remember right after the Olympics the N.CeA.A. committee had an agreement with the A.A.U. wherein they agreed that if the A.A.U. would permit them to have the college coaches for track and field, crew, swimming and wrestling, the A.A.U. would have the coaches of the other sports. That means that they sold basketball dom the river just after we got in the Olympic Games, and of course this was done to benefit the N.C.A.A. in these four above-mentioned sports. Now, when basketball comes along and makes some money, and plenty of it, the officers state that this money carmot be earmarked for basketball. | _ President Owens let it be know that the N.C.A.A. expected to take all the profit anc thet it was rather an unusual request to think that the colleges would get any of the money. I stood up and battled it up one side and down the other. Naturally Ole in his position, could not do much. Edmmdson, St. Clair, Olsen, May, Owens and I were in the conference. Of course, I drew some fire. Now we are in a bad spot because the N.C.A.A. wants all of the money. President Owens especially said that we have Ned Irish whipped, and I sdd, "You just think you have got him whipped, because most of the college coaches in the country would resent the N.C.A.A. taking the money and letting the boys and the athletic assoc- iations of the schools interested play for expenses alone.” ‘hen we agreed that the H.C.Ask. got 20% of these tourmaments we were just giving the N.C.A.A. something to start on. in my mind, the competing teams should certainly get a part of it. Confidentially, I told President Owens that I would go to Madison Square Garden where we could get the most money. And that is exactly why I am going to the Garden. I wanted you to know about this, and I would like for you to write me in confidence what your reactions are. ; ; T thought that in the eastern divisiun play-off they should take their money and cut it four ways for the four competing teams, and in our western play-off we should divide the profits four ways among the competing teams, after deducting a sizeable sum for the N.C.A.A, end then for the final play-off we could still have a larger cut for the two competing teams, with the N.C.A.A. getting their cut. What Ole proposed was to take the ten teams, the fou eastern and the four western, and the two finalists, and give the N.C.A.A. quite a sum and then cut the remainder ten ways. Frankly, I fess eae Sie TaNNS eth sey ah Tnpieheepete, and it looks to me as if we again are the angels. This whole matter hasn't been decided yet, and at our conference with President Owens, Mr. May and the rest of the group, we didn't get anywhere. I shall be glad to have your confidential reactions to the whole situation. Very, cordially yours, Director of Physica. Education and Recreation, FCA:AH Varsity Basketball Coach. STANFORD UNIVERSITY OFFICE OF THE DEAN OF MEN 4 STANFORD UNIVERSITY, CALIFORNIA September 5, 1939 Dr. Forrest C. Allen University of Kansas Lawrence, Kansas palpated cote ae Pk Se LS catalan, fe ra Dear Doctor Allen: Thank you very much for your recent letters which have gone unanswered until now because of the fact that I : have just returned from my vacation. Bonnie and I took a 4 boat trip to Alaska this year and I don't believe we have » enjoyed anything as much as this experience. Now with respect to your plans for the National Col- legiate Tournaments. I agree most heartily with your senti- ment that we must exert every effort to make money on this year's tournament. I was very much surprised also that the deficit for last year amounted to $2500. I have talked to Bill Owens about the whole situation and feel that he and the rest of his board are a little too much concerned about our activities. I reminded him of the fact that, after all, the basketball committee is the only income producing com- mittee in the whole organization and that therefore this initial experience should not be condemned too seriously. However, in view of the competition which we are facing in the east, I am very much concerned about the future. i A RN al So a a You and I agree exactly with respect to playing games on the home court of one of the teams. From a financial point of view, however, I can readily see that it may be the better policy to waive our own personal feelings. I am not sure, in , G@ny case in your section, but that Kansas City is the ideal | spot. I would go with you, however, in saying that it would be wise to withhold a final decision until later in the season. If you can secure the guarantees which were probably given | rather hastily by Oklahoma A. & M., I would not hesitate to accept then. I am sending you under separate cover all of my cor- respondence and planning in connection with the tournament 7 which was held out here last year. This may be of some help ‘ to you in avoiding the mistakes which I made. As an old cam- paigner, however, you probably will have no need of this in- formation. Dr. Allen: page 2 Burt DeGroot just passed through on his way to Lawrence. I feel sure that you are going to like him and that he will work effectively in your organization. I do , not know whether I mentioned this fact to you before or not, 4 but Burt's greatest interest is in the field of administra- tion. He did his thesis in this field under me. [I really ; believe that he has something very worthwhile to contribute ’ for the benefit of the high schools in Kansas along this oe line. I do not know who is teaching the course in admin- istration there now but it may be possible that you will want to use DeGroot's talents in this field. With best wishes, I am Very cordially yours, laine a Sg 95) OE ll LAF s ee mi ia es ep ap ais BS Ri aecereae ots ecalae Gree e aeaS faite ehh Bie Soh, . Lawrence, Kansas April 26,5 19396 Myre He Ge Olsen, Cheirman, NeCehehe Basketball Tournanent Seaton) c/o MeAlpin Hotel, New York City, NeYs Dear Harolds i ave dust tide noing + homa City in the enomt our we cent share of the net take of the Sth District re en een a L POASAN Chairman, Sth District, NeCeAehes FINANCIAL REPORT OF NeCeAede BASKETBALL (2989) Oklahone. thiversity expense By Le Burke, bus driver NeGehehe (To Dre Fe Cy Allen) Oklas A, & Me share rake University share Total | [RERCGEEERESEQE EE EI DEBITS CheDITS Gross Receipts - $3316.41 Rent $565.90 Dr. F. 0. Alla 367 .26 Federal Tex | 270,22 State Tax 60.24 ‘Meket Sellers, Doorman ushers, etc. 111.69 Jopn Tuuesdele 77 /