Elmore-~ Allen-- Anderson- Dunkel-- Miller-- Elmore-- Allen-- Dunkel=-- Allen-- eodyes athletics have assumed. Most colleges have a separate athletic depart- ment to administer athletic activities. Then all of the intramural sports are not in the athletic department, are they? No, they are in the department of physical education. The competitive | sports, represented wy varsity teams, that the university sponsors and those under the control of the director of athletics are football, track, basoball, basketball, tennis, golf, wrestling, and swimming. The depart- mont of physical education sponsors play activities for both men and women and the intramural sports are much more numerous than are the varsity sports, and thoy are indulged in by many hundreds more people than are the competitive varsity athlotics. And thon the state subsidizes the department of physical education, while competitive athletics are dependent upon the gato receipts, are they not? Yes. I understand the stadium cost $660,000 and that the athletic assoc- iation has a remaining debt of $150,000. Is it true that there is not a ponny of the taxpayers money in that large stadium? Yes, while we call it the Athletic Board, the University of Kansas Phys- ical Education Corporation roally built that stadium. You know, the state will not assume any indebtedness for any athletic association of any state school. I imagine, Dre Allon, that in this now department of Physical Education you expect to give a good deal of attention to tho matter of training people in the field of recreation. It is true, is it not, that the two things - recreation and physical education ~ are not the same? You are right, Mr. Elmore. Some of the training in each will carry over in the other ficld, but by and large thore aro differences. My guess is that thero is going to be more of a demand for people who can administer both physical education and recreation in the next 25 years than there will be for teachers of straight physical education. The average phys~- jcal education course trains people to handle groups of children or adults, as the case may bo, but usually on schedule and under some sort of disciplinary control. Recreation is different. You must enlist your people in recreation through interest appeal, and thorefore it seems to me that the difference in training is essential. Well, Dr. Allen, I have heard a great deal about a master's degree in physical education for this department. Are you contemplating such « move? Yes, indeeds By next year we will have two teachers in the department with Ph.D. degrees, and 5 teachers in the department of physical education with master's degrees. There are many of our high school teachers going to nearby state institutions, like Iowa, Minnesota, and Ohic State to get graduate work in physical oducation. Of course, the outstanding schools are Now York University and Columbia, where they give the master's degree and the Ph.D. degree in physical education. But we are vory hope- ful of installing a graduate course in physical education in the very near futuree We are working with the authorities of the University toward that ond.