Friday, June 21, 1963
Summer Session Kansan
Page 5
Goldwater Previews
Editor's Note: In the following dispatch, Sen. Barry Goldwater evaluates GOP chances in 1964 and candidly examines his own position.
By Louis Cassels and Raymond Lahir WASHINGTON — (UPI) — Sen. Barry Goldwater thinks there is a good chance that delegates to the 1964 Republican convention will rebel against "Eastern Kingmakers" and nominate a real conservative for president.
THE ARIZONA senator expressed these views during an interview in which he insisted that he has not yet made up his mind whether to seek the GOP nomination. He said he won't decide until March or April of next year.
He also is "more and more convinced" that a conservative Republican candidate could beat John F Kennedy.
Despite his vigorous avowals of indecision, he sounded like a man who has a foot in the air to run. His estimate of his chances for winning the nomination and the election has clearly changed considerable during the past few months. He used to tell reporters bluntly that he didn't have a chance to be nominated, and he would privately acknowledge that no Republican had much hope of derailing President Kennedy's bid for a second term.
Now he radiates optimism, on or off the record.
"I don't want this nomination," he said. "But it may be forced on me. If I'm put in the position where I have to take it, I won't be a reluctant tiger. I'll get out and fight. Earlier this year—as late as February—I felt that Kennedy couldn't be beat. I still think it would be a helluva hard job. But I'm more and more convinced that it can be done.
"KENNEDY IS getting weaker and weaker and weaker. People are beginning to react against his inattention to national problems, and his indecision. With the right candidate, 1964 could be a Republican year after all."
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Q. Were you surprised by the recent Gallup poll that showed you out in front of Rockefeller and Romney as a popular favorite for the GOP nomination?
Q. Do you think Rocky has been badly hurt by his remarriage to a divorcee?
A. No, I can't say I was surprised.
Our own political soundings have indicated that trend for some time.
Goldwater brushed off the question with a vigorous shake of his head.
"IM NOT GOING to discuss that," he said.
Q. Do you regard your rising standing in the polls as evidence of a growing demand for a "real Republican"—that is, a conservative—nominee?
A. Yes. I think there is such a demand, and it is getting stronger all the time. A large majority of the
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James L. Connellly has been appointed visiting lecturer in art history for the coming year to replace Klaus Berger who is going to Japan
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delegates to every Republican national convention-I'd say 80 per cent or more—are conservatives at heart. You can tell that from the platform fights. But these delegates have never been able to nominate a candidate of their own persuasion. The choice has always been made by the boys in the smoke-filled rooms. That's why Taft (the late Sen. Robert A. Taft, R-Ohio) never got the nomination.
Q. DO YOU think things may be different next year?
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A. Yes, I have a hunch that the 1964 nominee may be chosen by the delegates instead of in a smoke-filled room. We're getting more young leaders in the party, real conservatives, and they're not so easily herded around. I question whether the eastern king-makers have enough strength any more to dictate their own choice of a candidate.
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Goldwater sat in a leather swivel chair behind his desk in the senate office building. Behind him on a bookshelf stood an array of model planes. Goldwater is a major general in the Air Force reserve and a command pilot. He has logged more than 8,000 hours of flight time, and has flown every new Air Force jet except the supersonic F-105.
"Mr. Conservative" is now 54. His deeply-tanned face is set off by silver-white hair. If some of his senate colleagues question his intellectual depth, no one questions the attractiveness of his personality, or the amiability of his nature. He is simply a very likeable guy, off-stage as well as on.
Q. If you decide to go after the Republican nomination, when will you announce your candidacy?
A. Around next March or April.
Q. THAT LATE?
A. I CAN'T RATE him until I know a little more about his philosophy. I know he's for states' rights and fiscal soundness. But he's never said too much. The important thing is that in Republican minds he is tabbed as a liberal.
Q. Do you figure on entering some primaries?
A. Yes. You see, I have one advantage. I've done my political homework. I've spent the last five and a half years traipsing around the country helping precinct chairmen elect candidates and raise money. Neither Rockefeller nor Romney has done this. I have good working relationships with the party regulars all over the country and I believe I could put together a good professional campaign organization quickly if I decided to seek the nomination. Also, I'm the only conservative being mentioned. If a fight develops, it wil be among the liberals.
A. I don't think primaries are too important. I'd be foolish not to recognize that someone is bound to toss my name into the New Hampshire primary (which will be the first in the nation, next March). If I get a healthy vote in New Hampshire, I'll have to make up my mind about running before we come to the primaries which require a candidate's permission for his name to go on the ballot.
Q. Do you rate Romney a liberal?
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Q. Would your campaign strategy be based on winning a lot of support in the South?
A. 1 THINK any Republican—even Rocky—would have to start out assuming that he's not going to carry New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Michigan and possibly California. We're simply not going to run strong in the big industrial areas where Negroes and Jews—for reasons that escape me—vote overwhelmingly Democratic. That means we're going to have to run very strong in the South, the Southwest, the Middle East, Middle West, the Mountain West, and the Northwest if possible.
A. Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky.
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Q. What do you mean by "Middle East'?"
Q. If you campaign in the South, what stand will you take on race relations?
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A. I campaigned all over the South for Nixon in 1960, and everywhere I went I told them that I was opposed to segregation and discrimination, but I believed in states' rights. I told them I didn't think it was my business, as an Arizoan, to come in and tell them what to do. That's the real issue in the South, you know—it's not integration, but states' rights.
Q. Do you really believe that,
Senator?
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The question startled Goldwater momentarily. His foot came down off his desk and he leaned forward. "Why, yes, I do," he said. "You guys ought to visit the South and see what's going on down there."
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"I'm from South Carolina," replied one of the reporters, "and I visit it quite often. I had the impression that integration certainly is an issue, in fact, THE issue in the South."
THE SENATOR pondered this for a while, and then agreed that there were "some people" in the South for whom the whole question of racial mixing is a "red flag."
"But the new middle class in the South is composed of economic conservatives," he said. "Their chief concern is states' rights. They accept the fact that integration is coming and it is not an overriding issue with them."
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Q. Do you think the Republican party can win a national election while taking a stand on racial problems that will appeal to white voters in the South?
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A. I think the Republican party can take its stand on states' rights, and live with it. After all, we don't have to depend on federal power, and legislation, to make progress in race relations. When the President invited business leaders to the White House the other day to talk about lowering racial barriers, he took a step in the right direction. This is the only effective way. Negroes are impatient with job discrimination, and I don't blame them. If we can get businessmen to open the doors of employment opportunity to Negroes, this would be a big help. I don't say it would satisfy all demands. I'm afraid some of the young Negro leaders are not quite sure what they want. It may be social equality—and you can't legislate that.
Q. YOU SAID the other day that you and all other Republican senators were ready to support "sensible"
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civil rights legislation. What would you consider a "sensible" bill?
A. A bill that would give the attorney general teeth to take ahold of court decisions on schools . . . spell out his authority to act in this field.
Q. You said earlier that you think Kennedy may be beatable, but it would still be a helluva job. Wouldn't it be smarter to lie low in 1964 and go after the Republican nomination in '68?
Goldwater abruptly tilted his chair to the upright position, and slapped the desk for emphasis.
"I'm not going to seek this nomination—in '64, '68, or '72," he said forcefully. "I'm just going to sit and watch . . . and see what happens."
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