- Thank you very much, Mr. Roth, for taking your time for taking this interview. This is September the 13th, 2011, in the home of Mr. and Mrs. Roth in Wichita, Kansas. Beautiful home. - Thank ya. - And we, again, thank the both of you for taking your time to participate in our project and record your memories. - Thank ya, thank ya. - So, what we're going to talk about is the first question was, before you joined the military during World War II, where were you living and what were you doing? - I was living in Arkansas, in western Arkansas, and I was a farmer. I was a kid working for my father on a farm. - And where was this in Arkansas? - Well, I was born in western Arkansas, a placed called Ashdown. That's in southwest Arkansas, close to a little town called Texarkana. Maybe you heard of it? - Yeah. - Texarkana. About 30 miles from Hopes, Arkansas. That's a famous little town in Arkansas. - Right, right. - And I was born and then later on I moved to eastern Arkansas down by western Memphis. - Now did your father own his farm? - No, he was a renter. He was what you call a renter. - Uh-huh. - Third and fourth. - Did you have any brothers and sisters? - Oh yeah. Eight brothers and four sisters. - Oh, that's great. That's great. So, you were working on the farm at the time that World War II broke out or? - Yes, I sure was. - Had you had an opportunity to go to school in the area? - Well, yes. I went to school in western Arkansas. Fact is I may say schooling was very limited. Facts it was 1932 before the county I was born in had a high school there that I could go to. It was 1932 but I was just kind of beginning to go to school at that, I think I started school when I was about seven. It was, my school time was very limited but anyway, I started when I was seven years old but. - Did you have to work on the farm most of the time? - Well, I had started on working when I was very young. I started, really started working when I was five years old. Oh my. What where you doing at five and six? - Oh, I was pulling corn. And then getting up and what you call chocking a little cotton. - Right. - And, jelly, whatever we did on the farm, I was kinda in there. - You were doing everything? - In my place and assignment. - Well, that's good. So, how did you view the war? - Oh, I viewed the war as a, I viewed it as set to get in there. I wanted to get in the war. I mean, I was excited when after I was, I believe I was about 18, after I was about 18 and I got a, received a questionnaire. I think it's calling for 18 to 44 at that time and I was 18, probably going on 19 and I was just excited to, I carried my questionnaire around in my pocket until the date I went in and I told a friend I got my questionnaire. They need me in the war. - So did they draft you or? - Oh yes, they drafted me. - Did they draft you? - Drafted, drafted. - Well, what did your parents say? - Oh, they was kind of, very much worried. It's a worrisome, serious situation to them. We just had, Charlotte had the notice that Pearl Harbor had been bombed and I believed President Roosevelt was making a speech nightly and that it was kinda worrisome to think about the boys would probably have to go to war. - Well, did any of your other brothers, were they drafted at the same time or? - Yeah but a period from September of '42 until that February '43 it was, till February '43 it was about five of us and that, at the time, September 1942 through about February 1943. It was five of us that got drafted. Facts I went in November '42. - So when you went in, what was your first step when you were? - Well. - Going in? - The first thing I had to be called to the induction. You know, the examination station. - Right. - And I was supposed to go, I was stationed with that Little Rock but unfortunately Little Rock had a fire and so we had to go down to Shreveport, Louisiana. - Really? - And I was down there about three days going through the process, being examined and all, you know, all the things that went through examining and I guess they measured me and I just went through the routine a day from time to time. We had to talk over different things, about enlightenment and so forth and after about three days, two nights, we was all finished. It was quite a few down there. People from Arkansas was drafted on that date and then Louisiana people, we was all down together and after about three days and night we were ready to, we was all over. We went back home for 15 days and it was quite a, I had probably a situation when I was after it was over, I may say that we, there's two bus loads of us from Arkansas there and all those who had passed the test were asked to get on one bus and those who didn't pass the examination was on another bus. But like I said, that me and one of my friend, I didn't know him though, he was just one of the guys, we kinda whatcha call a race. I call it a race for a seat. And the seat was just, it's across from the driver. First you step in behind this seat and the driver's, this seat was to your right and the driver seat was there and we raced for that seat and so he beat me to it. He was faster than I was but when he got, we was about, I guess about, probably about 75 miles between Shreveport and Texarkana, the bus had a wreck and he got killed. - Oh no! - Yeah. - In the seat that he rose-- - The one he beat me to, he got killed. So the first bus, the bus was trailing the leading bus and as this leading bus ran up to, I think, a railroad crossing, he's had to stop. It was the law that they stop and before he could stop but he tried to pull in front of it running and it just crushed him in. And that was the first, I was very thankful for that. That was the first simulator that I thought probably could have happened when I get to war. - Right, right, right. What was race relations like in the community you were at? Just give me a sense of it. - I don't know. I forgot the little name for it but it was a definite separation, discrimination, and any other word that you find in that category it was just that. You know, but anyway, I may say that my dad always kept me in some little farmer place that we didn't come in contact with too much daily action in this kinda, in race. But out in the low times, you know you, it was a, you honored them and you all such as passing when you gotta kinda step aside and let the ladies pass and all this, I mean, you name it. - Right. - We had our little places that we go to. - What was the name of the place? - I mean certain restaurants. - You remember any of the names of the restaurants? - Oh, one of 'em was called the Seat Car Restaurant and other place, I mean, we just called it Buck's. May Shag's Place and just little spots there but this little town I was located in, people come all the way from Memphis and everywhere every weekend the town was so crowded you couldn't walk on the street. It was just push, push. And I thought, when I left from western Arkansas it was a kinda real general Christian and place white and people 'cause I ate at many, I used to kind of slip off to a white gentleman's house and get in the center and the middle of his children and we would eat there but down in eastern Arkansas it was all different, of course. You know, I had grown up I didn't want that. But, anyway, people was coming to Hughes from everywhere but it was a kinda, I thought it was a, I thought it was a Solomon and goldmine when I first got there. I was just, I was not only afraid, I was more afraid of the crowd and the peoples, the condition there, really among other people that were at any other place. It was just, ew. They had-- - What was the name of the town? - It was named Hughes. H-U-G-H-E-S. Hughes, Arkansas and illegally gambling was there and all this kind of thing and I don't think the state people come in very often but I don't think it really legal but the officials at that time on, you know, guard everything until they heard the state people was coming in then they would close down different deals. - Right, right. - So I just thought it was, ew, I was just afraid to be on the street at night there. - When you were growing up, what church did you go to? - I went to what you call a baptist church. - Was it near where your farm was? - Yes, it was. It was just across the lake from the farm. It was walking distance. I didn't have a car at that time. - Right. So, were there other black families around? - Oh yes, yes. That's the majority around there. It's the majority were black. Facts that whole county almost a majority was black. African American as we sometime would say. - Right, right. Black, African American, we can do whatever we want to now. - Okay. - So, were you anxious to participate in World War II? - Oh yeah I was. - Why, why? - I don't know. It was just the matter of I always wanted to go, you know, leave around home and go and as I said, I was real excited when I got my questionnaire and I kid around and told my friends, told them that I had my questionnaire and they need me in the war. - So after you got inducted and went through all that and after the bus tragedy, where were you going for your military training? - Oh I went to Camp Robinson. That's a camp just out of the city limit of Little Rock. That's where I take my basic training. - What was this, was this training camp all African American or was it integrated? - The camp was not all African American, just a section. We had a section. It wasn't no integrated, no. It wasn't integrated. African American had they portion of the camp. White had they portion. - Uh-huh. - We had our PX, you know, place we go and get our dive or little article. We had our beds, we had our recreation place but we were separated, definitely separated. Facts are we did a different type of a, I guess, of a training. All those I think was different. I believed it was 'cause we never did any of this any over in they section, they never did any in our section. Only on, I believe they had one range training, rifle range is where we shoot live ammunition. - Right. - But we didn't, we wasn't out there together. They had a time and we had a time. - Now were your, were the leaders of this, of your particular unit, were they white or were they black? - The high ranking was white. Our captain, company commander, he was white. The battalion and the regiment's commander, they was all white, but we had, I believe, most of them in my company when I would, when I was in my company, the highest ranking black officer was a, I believe he was a first lieutenant. But I'm sure that most of 'em was second lieutenants. - Right. - That was the lowest rank of a lieutenant. You know. A second lieutenant is just a first officer, lieutenant officer, and, anyway, first lieutenant is the highest and going on lieutenant and from that, you know, you go to a captain, major, and colonel and on up and up. - What was your daily routine like in that day? - It was training, training. - Well, what do you mean? - Well, some of the things that kinda interested me and sure enough we got there Sunday and the first thing they did, well, the first thing was we was told keep up the area. We had to keep that police there, clean up. That's what he called clean up police. - Right. - And it probably one of some of these things that only I just, you know, so surprising. Sometimes the whistle would blow at one o'clock in the morning. - For what? - Get up. Get up. Get dressed. Fall in. Get up, fall in. That's, fall in was get, you know, fall in your position and get dressed stuff. In other words, you know, when you stand, line up and back up. - What was the purpose of that? - Oh just, first time ever I had to learn how to get up and get ready in a shortly time. Other words, we had two minutes to get up. It was practice on getting up at two minutes, getting in formation, and getting dressed and getting in order. And see, each company had three platoons, first, second, and third, and we had to fall out and get in order and the last two guys will get out, they was automatic late. - Oh. - They was gonna be put on extra-- - Were you ever late? - Oh yeah. - You were? Okay. - Yeah, they was put on extra duty on the weekend. When we was first there they give us weekends off. Saturday evening through Sunday. So they would put you on extra duty for that. And, then going out, we started the going out on, you know, going out in the wilderness around there and these thing and mostly they pick a rainy night and they saying it doesn't rain in the Army, it rains on the Army. That was the word on that. And, they allowed us to make a little rust sheet bars when we first went out but I know, before I went out, they tell us all go out there and get some brush and throw it on the fire and that was the first time I was, again, I was just so . I told 'em I didn't get dressed for my own family. And I really wasn't aware of who I was talking to but he was a officer I was talking to and he demanded me to get up close to the fire and I got really hot. I mean, that fire was so hot but I was, he told me to stand there and finally he told me, he relieved me, told me to get back. And, those were some of the kind of things and when I first got in uniform when we got there, I was standing aside a friend I had been with all the time. After I got in that uniform, I didn't know who he was. He was standing aside of me. Of course, they demand you to always stand correct, try to make you stand correct. Look forward. Don't be looking around and so forth. And it was kinda look over there. I didn't recognize him in that uniform because it was just something in those days, we didn't have too many coats and trousers matched. And the shirts. So, it was quite an experience and we would go out and all those kind of things. - When you say you go out, what do you mean you'd go out? - Oh, sometimes we go out in, out in the wilderness. There's lots of woods around, out there from the training field. And we'd go out in the woods and out in the field and do different exercises out there. Like, you know, it's like probably, and somewhere that you'd be in the war, in the war zone, fighting but when we first started like I had said, they kind of let us be a little forest because it was raining all the time. We'd be out all night sometimes. All night and sometimes a couple nights and days. - Now, when they were training you with the guns, you said it was live ammunition? - Yeah, we train on some occasions, we train with live ammunition. Oh yeah. Like the, go through the field of, well, we take the exercise of actually target training. They had, you know, go through that target training. Shooting live ammunition and you see get you, mark your score by hitting the bullseye. There'd be a bullseye on that board way out there and you'd come close to it and there'd be a guy down in the hole. Every time you shoot, he'd market it where you hit the bull. - Were you pretty good at it? - Oh, I got to be a sharp shooter. - Really? - I wasn't able to get to be an expert. I got to be a sharp shooter. I was pretty good on shooting a rifle and although I become a machine gun and all this kind of thing. I tried to learn everything they put before me and I did. I did a good job on learning. I'm not rousing myself but-- - Right. - Everything they put before me, I learnt it. And, at field you go through some training of, one thing I never did like that we had to go through in basic training, crossing a lake. A lake about, I guess almost this, the size of these rooms back to the living room. Little larger than that. All such as ropes, they got 'em fixed out there. You catch one rope and swing to another and swing to-- - Oh really? - And if you don't get across swinging, you gon' fall in the water. And we'd always do that in the winter time, mostly winter time. And then we'd go through a field of concentration, a field of fire. We'd have to crawl, you know, crawl with all of our packs and stuff on our shoulder and we'd have to crawl under fire. Now they shoot over you with that, machine gun shooting about, a level about four feet high. And they said it would be lower than that but you couldn't, you couldn't get up. You know? 'Cause it's real, it's real, and you go across a field about, of about 200 feet or more. You'd have to crawl through that and then you'd big boned, you'd have to climb that wall. That kinda exercising you went through in basic training. - Wow. - And sometimes after you get out of basic training, we left Little Rock at Camp Robinson after our basic training was over, which about three months, we went to Fort Huachuca, Arizona. That's where I take an advanced training and out there, well, anyway I guess, or at least still talking of what they lack. Anyway, I guess. Out there in advanced training, well, you really go through a whole lot of simulation like you really in war. You have a team against ya but you don't use 'em, you don't use your ammunition on that but still on occasion we use ammunition and also we use artillery, all of that. - Now, was this training, was this advanced training camp? - That's advanced training. Of course, I just jumped on that advanced training. - Well, that's fine. - Where we use artillery. - Right. - Artillery in our training and we all such as a direction on a compass. You set your compass and they'll set something in the direction, maybe they set a stake here and they set one over on Rock Road. Maybe one halfway from the end of Newton and you take your compass and get the direction and you go to each point, find each point. Which compasses, you know, you do everything. - Did you like it? - Yeah it was very interesting, learning how to do all that, learning how to handle all kinds of weapons either. We take a training even on artillery guns. That was a heavy weapon that pushed and in the other company we only use rifles, machine gun, and mortars. A mortar is a small artillery. It's a small artillery. It has a shell about this big around, something like that long. But the big artillery gun have shells about that long, about something like that given. But it's a unit that, it's an artillery unit. Each division has its artillery units but I was in the rifle and machine gun and mortar company. And so, in other words, in advanced training, each of, I was in the 371st regiment, each regiment they have is different situation just like ours. We was a riflemen, machine gun, and mortar men. Okay, we had our artillery attachment. We had our medical attachment. We had our transportation attachment. See, I was only an attachment of a regiment. But it was a division that was, we had three regiments. We had 370, 365th, and 370 and all us got together in Arizona and that was a camp made specially for African American soldiers. - Why do you say that? - Because it was. I mean, Mrs. Roosevelt understand, suggested that they would build that camp for us. But other than that, other than that camp, we was kinda in, as I said, like in basic training, we was in a section of a camp. Over this corner, this end. White was over on that corner, that end. - Right. But this was a camp solely devoted to African Americans? - Devoted. African American. Fort Huachuca. It was. Solely devoted. Wasn't nothing out there but African American and we had a few high ranking white officers and from time to time, they have a African American officer would get rated and they would move up to captains and majors and so forth. Now our commander, do you want that now? - Yes sir. Go right ahead. - Our commander of the 92nd division was General Ed. He had some more in his name but General Almond and I just called him General Almond all the time. And he wasn't, he wasn't very nice to African, or although he was almost but he wasn't being nice to. - Why do you say that? - Well, he was so prejudiced. - Why do you say that? - Well, his actions showed it. He didn't hide it. - What kind of actions did he show? - Well actually, he never was, he never did mix. All the time he was being in the spotlight with his division, sometime he'd call a general meeting and his comments in his general meetings wasn't anything cherishing. It just threatening some black member. I remember once we all met in the park that they, athletic park that they built out there in that camp after we had got there and one of his general speeches were he told us about those red topped barracks, we lived and buried them. A barrack is a house, it's a place that, you know, I guess about 15 or 20 of us would be in there and he'd say, you see those barracks? He said, they are not your home. They are just a station for your equipment. He say your home gon' be out on the field training. And certain, you know, some days we would be out day and night, up to three days and they would have guys who come by and check you to see were you sleeping or trying to take a little nod or nap. We had to stay awake and we had to stay alert and we had to stay in position any time they'd check us and so we often do that and I mean-- - Who, do you remember, did you have any close buddies? - Oh yeah. I mean, everybody who was in the company they was buddy buddies 'cause we was a real close and a proud group of people and-- - Did some of these people come from other places? - Well most of the guys in our outfit, yeah, they was from different places. Most of us soldiers was from Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, and there was a few, and then there was Ohio. I had a real friend and a guy I liked to kinda be my, he was kinda my ideal-- - Idol? - He was kinda my idol 'cause, named James Taylor from Cincinnati, Ohio and there were, he was a friendly guy and he's a very educated guy and again, when I got out, I tried to catch tips from guys who knew something as most of my schooling from guys who knew something. - Right. - But I did go to eighth grade. - Yeah. - I went through it. - More than most. - James Taylor was really a good, he just ready for ya. He was dying wit' ya. He was up wit' ya. You know? - Right. - He just, out with ya and and then I had another guy friend, Edward Brooks, son of the Brooks of Massachusetts. - Yeah. - I was in a company with him. - Really? - But he wasn't in it. He wasn't with us in Arizona. I don't wanna take too much of your time but maybe I'll get to how we got together. But anyway. - Well, you can take up any time you want. You can take as much time as you wish. - General Almond, back to him, he was, I don't know, I guess, that's why they put him over this division. I guess that's why that he is the executive officer over the division because even though at that time and that year I know I probably read about how discrimination was boiling over, it was at its limit and African American or black people, whatever you may say, didn't really get any credit for anything you ever did right. - Right. - And as I said, the town that I was born in, schooling was limited. The county I was born in, the first high school in, not Little River County. Yes . It used to be Red River County and they called it Little River County . The first high school they built there was in '32. Only one high school in '38, they acclimated two high schools and at that time from the sixth grade through the 12th would go to school at the same place and we went on, we had one bus picked up half of the county and I was on. I would ride that bus to and we almost pushed it back, there was so many of us on that bus. Anyway, I went, I went to this school and but, you know, but before I, I was pretty old. It wasn't nothing to see, 17 and 18 year old kids going to, even local school 'cause most of the schools there was in a church building, something like that. But anyway, when I left I really tried to hang with people who had, who, you know, had some, now half of them had some degrees but some how or another, they were set down to our outfit. They might have did something but they were sent down to our outfit and they was really smart people and Brooks, Brooks, he was a very intelligent guy. - Where was Brooks? Was Brooks in Arizona or was he? - No, Brooks didn't go to Arizona. - How did you meet him then? - Okay, okay. I met Brooks when we take and finished our training in Arizona as a, you know, 92nd division, Buffalo division. - Right. - Before when we was packing up getting ready but Brooks trained in the regiment 366. Let me jot that down. You may read something about the 366. - Right. - And this was all, let me use the word black if that's all right. - Right. - All black unit. From the top executive office was a colonel, a full colonel and his assistant was a colonel and he was a lieutenant colonel. The leader was a lieutenant colonel. Colonel Queen and Colonel Chase. Okay, 366 was fixing to go, needs to go over seas. They're ready to go over seas and they didn't have the full number of mens. They had to have the full number of, that a regiment carry before they could go. - Right. - And so they, all the men already had finished training. - What were telling about filling the 366, trying to fill up the number? - Oh yes, okay. They had to have a number, a full number to go over. They couldn't go over without their full number of mens. - Right. - And so, they order enough mens outta Buffalo division to join them and go over 'cause they were ready to go over. They gonna send them over there. And the 92nd, 40 from Huachuca went down to Louisiana on maneuvers and they hadn't been through their maneuver. And, so I went, I was one of those who was choosed, they chose to go to 366 and so I went overseas with the 366 regiment. - You did? - Yeah and so we went by the way of a, I may before we got over, we went through Virginia, Virginia, down in Newport News. That's where we caught a ship but down at Newport News, okay, we couldn't put money in a clerk's hands. See, they wouldn't take money out of our hand. We'd go buy something. We weren't there but about three days. We'd buy something, go down to the piggly and buy something. They say, lay the money down. And so, some of these fellas refused to lay it down. They walked out with it. And so, that started a stir. It's lucky it didn't start a riot there. But anyway, they got us out. I think they shortened our time, sent us outta there in two days. - So tell me why do you think those men refused to go by the code of behavior? Why did they refuse to do that? - 'Cause the city, talking about the farms and-- - Yeah, the men in the regiment, why did they refuse to lay down their money? - Because they just said, if you can't take it outta my hand, well, you don't get it. But they just knew it was, they thought it was discrimination. - Did they have their military uniform on? - Well, it was in a military faculty. Them folks, all them folks, belonged to the United States military. - You're kidding. - And they were working for the military. I don't know whether they was in the service or not but-- - But it was on the post. - Oh yeah. It was a military, on the post and they . So they got us out of there. They put us on the ship and sent us on over. We went to Casablanca. Stopped there about two days and night and went on down a little further and-- - What was that ship like? - Oh the ship was, it was a new ship. In fact, it hold about 11,000 troops. It wasn't the biggest ship but it was a good size. It was a fast ship. It couldn't run in no convoy. It had to run by itself. And, it was about 11,000 of us on that ship. And as we was going over and we stop in Casablanca. - Talking about the ship that you were on, were the sailors black or white? The people who were running the ship? - You hardly ever seen those ship but I think it was mixed 'cause you go on all those ships was blacks and white. I know the captain, all those guys, they was white but there was lots of help those ship, those guys on it. Those ships carry lots of help with them. Especially a big ship like that. - Did you have trouble on the boat? - No, I-- - I mean, just getting acclimated to it? - I had, my trouble on the boat was getting sick. - Yeah. - Every day I would feel bad on that ship. I'd go down and get on the dock and I'd feel better and then I lay down there and I go to feeling bad and I get up and go out on the deck. You had access to go any where you want. You know it. Up and down on the boat. And, on certain meals, they had three shifts. I think we'd go by colors. I mean, color of our tags. - Right, right. - And we would, they would serve all day long. By the time this color got through, another one needed . It's over and over. By the time they got all around, it'd be time for us to go back again. There'd be two, two meals a day. And finally, I helped work on the ship. I help worked in the kitchen on the ship. - Oh good. - Before I got on and and I don't know but I think I felt-- - Do you remember how long you were on the ship? - 11 days going over. Going over it was 11 days. But it was much more than that coming back though. But anyway. - So what was Casablanca like? - Well, we was in Casablanca about three days. I remember we got there on Easter. We was in there on Easter Sunday, 1944. No, 1943. '44, '44. Wait a minute. Yeah, '44. '44. We was there on Easter Sunday and we didn't get a chance to see much of, didn't know going around and we just had to stay in our area and it was a horrible layout. In other words, we ate outside in our mess kit and before you could get to eating, your mess kit was almost half full of sand. It was dusty, sandy there. And so, we got out, left Casablanca and went on to a place called Orania, Africa I believe. Orania, Africa. And it was down on the coast but Mediterranean Sea dipped into the Atlantic Ocean. - Yes sir. - It's right there in that corner. And this time we're, we stayed there about a week before we journeyed on up north up in Africa, up in Italy. Before we journeyed and got off at Naples in Italy and then we went over, down in kind of southern, south cental I think. No, not south. Not too far but we some of these cities there in Italy 'cause I think there's another little tip down there called something else but we didn't go all the way but we was down there until the 92nd, the rest of 'em came over. And I may say it because they would have, they couldn't send us to the front at that time because the 92nd big body wasn't there and we was down a place called, anyway I forget that little town name but I tell ya who was down at the 15 air force and the Muskogee flyers was down there. - Right. - And we watched over those ships, over those airplanes and so forth while they flew their mission until the 92nd got there. Now, when the 92nd arrived, when they arrived, then we all moved up at north of Rome towards the line and Colonel Queen, the commander of the 366 asked the high command to let the 366 kinda rehearse a little and so they refused so they sent him back to the United States. And it was-- - Why'd they send him back? - Because I guess, one thing I'm that if he had been born an up, they'd probably have to let him be the leader of the 366, of that regiment. - Right. - Although, the division, the regiment was signed over to the division because when you get on the line, you know, you're gonna lose casualties, you're gonna lose people. - Right. - And so they got to be replaced. Got to be replaced. And there was no one to replace, they used, had to use, I guess, African Americans to replace a African American 'cause white didn't fight with us. We was on the Adriatic coast. Our assignment was on the Adriatic coast and we drove and the 92nd division, you know, including the 366 with the and on they flank was Japanese. American Japs. North American had a regiment of Japanese. See, Japanese got caught over here when Pearl Harbor was here and so I understand at that time I think they put those guys in prison, the Japanese people in prison. - Right. - American Japs, they put 'em in prison but they had, they did relieve 'em and train them, train them for the, you know, they become citizens, they train 'em. And so, it was a battalion of them and they flanked us. - They flanked you? And this is while you were in Europe? - Yeah it's when we were on the line. It's in Italy. - In Italy? - Yeah, we were south. So you were flanked by the Japanese . - Group, yeah, I believe. And on that, and they was flanked by British troops and the British troop was flanked by American whites and they was on the Mediterranean coast and we, our outfit was on the Adriatic coast. Adriatic, Italy is flanked, west Italy is on the Adriatic. East Italy is on the Mediterranean. The country Italy. I mean, Italy, yeah, I'm right. The country of Italy, east flanked is on the Mediterranean. The west is on the Adriatic. So, as I said, that's why we was held up until they made it onward. Now, in this division, the 92nd division main body was stayed together or, you know, they didn't, after they had sent us to the 366 but we had to rejoin 'cause they need, you know, 'cause there was nowhere to get no replacement as to if you got killed or hurt. - Right. - But from that, they had to send enough African American over there so they could get those replacements. And, at one, now General Almond, now he made some, oh, he made some awful statements about the outfit he trained. - Did you ever hear, while you were over there, did you ever hear him making those comments? - No. It's just like, the visible, his visibility was just like President-- - Roosevelt. - Well, just like President Obama now. - Oh, I see. That's the authority. - 'Cause you know I mean he just, he stayed, I mean, he just, all you know this orders he'd send back. He wasn't a visible man with his group like some of the generals or some of the leaders. But, they, when in this last, during the winter of, winter out of '43 and '44, okay, that's when we went up in '43. Then, I mean, we went up in '44. In November, I believe, November of '44 when we went to the front. - What did you think about going to the front? - Oh, it was kinda, it was kinda winter when I was, closer I got 'cause they don't take us directly to the front. About three days before we went up, we was in an area back where off the line, way back, and you could see fire, you know, stricken through the air. - Right. - Fire power stricken through the air and hear the roaring of the big guns and we looked at that at night and the next day. But anyway, the next day we went on up, we get ready to go on up and we went so far on trucks and that morning, I don't know what it was Sunday morning or what. I don't think it was Sunday morning but it was one morning. The chaplain had service with us and I remember him speaking that morning to us. He told us that we was well trained and we had the best weapon in any nation. We was trained good in any nation, had the best weapon of anybody and said we was going up the location of 88 Highway, Purple Heart Valley. And he said, some of you will come back but I'm sorry but some of you won't come back. He said, well, anyway, God be with you and we gon' keep you in prayer. And from that point, that evening they, after sun goes down, we boarded trucks and go so far and we met guys, guys met us and told us to unload and move fast and quickly to get in our position and that's, we moved on and got in position real quick he said because they gonna be raiding here any time. So that's what they were just, but unfortunately the Italian line was holding. What I mean by holding, they wasn't going forwards at that time. They was just holding and keeping their position because we were just south of the Alps Mountain and on that mountain there's snow and ice so deep until we couldn't cross. We didn't have nothing to cross with trucks and we couldn't cross it. So, that was, I kinda thought to be a blessing because the first two days I was very nervous. I don't believe I could have pulled that rifle trigger first two days I was out there but unfortunately I didn't have to. I was just watching. But them guys would be shining lights out there, it look like a few hundred yards from ya but evidently a little further than that would be tossed out in front of us, almost 100 yards, was a canal and you couldn't cross that canal, it was over your head if you tried to cross it. But they told, our orders was, don't shoot unless you have to. So these guys gon' be spotting ya with lights and everything to make you shoot at 'em and if we had a did, we would shoot out, they men would drop artillery back on us. They would find out where we were located and they'd drop artillery on us. So we just for that month in January we just patrol every night. We send out patrol from our companies, send 'em out, and one night when I got hit, first time I got hit I was on a patrol and I went up to the beach of the Adriatic sea and where the chain quarter canal dips into the sea our orders was detour around it. By doing that, we could get around it by almost waist deep water but if we had to try to go straight across the canal, it'd been over our head. But I was about the third man out in the, you know, third man from the squad leader and I notice first thing they went to shooting up a flare. The Germans had a flair when the shoot it up, it'd open up a parachute and the light come on and it open up a parachute and it'd parachute down easy and it would shine brightly, almost day. It was radiant from here probably across the street over to the next house though they could see everything there but fortunately this parachute didn't open up. It just flooded. And I said, oh my gosh, these guys see us. And I was trying to decide whether to get down 'cause I was wading almost waist deep. - Right. - I was just trying to decide whether get out or just stand there and take a chance. But, I don't know, something told me to get out and I guess the other guys did too. I know I got out. By the time I got out, the bullets is hitting all the rock. It was just tearing up that water but every-- - But you escaped it by going in the water, right? - Beg your pardon? - You escaped it by ducking into the water right? - Well, yeah. Ah, yes. I guess, I don't know, yeah. I imagine I did but what happened every once in a while I had to raise my head up. - Right. - Thank God the bullets was stopped but this was just the pistols. They had a pistol. They said this pistol had a velocity of about 800 rounds a minute and it just didn't shoot accurately. You could just see blazes, that it shoot a blaze. You could see that the bullets thicken through the air but every time I raised my head up I had to raise my head up, they would stop. Finally a shell fell out to the side of me and it bursted and particles hit me in the leg and that got me a wound. It hurt but it got me a wound and again, they kept on searching, dropping shell and some more particle hit me in the head and by that time, that hurt. That really hurt. And water had been washing me out and I was crawling back, washing me out toward the bank and I was crawling back. So by the time that I got hit in the head, a leader come crawling back saying, is everybody all right? Let's go back. We can't go no further. And by that, and on the same time, there was fellas back on the ground, was dropping shells on them and they had taken all the attention off of us and we had a chance to escape down the water and I got so far down, far down I noticed a medical team was out there with Jeeps and I tried to go for the bank but I couldn't balance myself. And, I pulled off my, I had already lost my rifle. And I pull off my belt 'cause it had grenades hanging on it and threw it away and tried to get up and I couldn't, still couldn't balance there and I had a big field jacket on. It was all full of water. I pulled it off and by that time I hobbled to the Jeep. When I got in the Jeep, they were taking off. When they got loaded, they were taking off but the Jeeps don't have no top down. Winter time, snow, wind blowing and I had to go about four or five miles. And when I got to the company headquarters I was nothing but ice. Next day, I wrapped up, I didn't have no change of clothes either and I changed, I wrapped up in blankets. They had blankets down there and I wrapped up in them and the next day they cut my hair. I went to another medical stop and they cut my hair off up there, all up there. And then the next day about, no the same day about 24 hours 'cause it was about nine o'clock, 10 that night when I got hit. About nine or 10 o'clock the next night I go to a field hospital that they had a big hospital, tent hospital way back and I was way back. When I got to them all I know is they was pulling me out the ambulance and I was asleep and the next morning they put me by a big pot belly heater. Next morning the Red Cross lady came in, asked me where did I want to send my Purple Heart at or did I want to keep it? I said, no I don't wanna keep it because, I couldn't, you know, couldn't keep it. - Why couldn't you keep it? - Oh, I just knew I was gonna go back someday. I wasn't in the hospital about 20 some days and I had to go back up there and, you know, you know, you didn't keep nothing like that in your pocket 'cause you didn't have no protection for it 'cause, you know, wet, raining, in water. I actually don't have no clothes. If I hadn't got hit, I'd a had to go back to my den, my hole and tried to-- - So who kept the Purple Heart? - They sent it home. - Oh, they sent it home. - Yeah, I have it somewhere. Oh Lord, uh-oh, what did I do? - That's okay. - I have that somewhere. - Yeah, that's okay. That's all right. - I made sure now I have my record here in my pocket. - Uh-huh, right. That's fine, that's fine. - But anyway, okay, in the spring-- - You were making it that-- - In the spring when after the drive all started out beginning to get ready for this all out drive which ended the war in Europe. Okay? I as I said was on the Adriatic and so forth but before that happened, all this came down but, you know, the Russian was moving so fast from the east on China till they thought they was pulling the troops off the south out of Italy to stuffer and so therefore they throwed, whatcha call a fake drive, a fake movement on the . I tell ya the front was gonna move. You know, move in fighting. So but in south Holland move all their positions but they didn't send nobody out there but African American soldier and I understand and I know we didn't get-- - Why did they, why? - Well, the idea that they really wasn't gonna move the line. They wasn't ready to move it because they wanted to hold on till Russia got closer and they gone-- - So they were using you as fodder? - They use us, yeah, use us as whatever you may call it but we was the oldest one went forwards, saying that this front was gonna move and in the meantime we heard that our leader, he wouldn't give us no airport. You know, let a bomber drop bombs out in front of us and I understand he told 'em, told the high authorities that his men didn't need no airports. They are trained to take those mountains, to take those mountain for . - Who was saying this? Someone white or black? - General Almond? - Yeah, oh he was white, okay. - Yeah. Our leader, he's the leader but in the meantime, he left there before the war was over. He left but I don't know why he left. But he made statements about the black soldiers are inferior to, I believe that's the word, inferior to white and he asked the authorities not to put black soldiers in the Army anymore. He said that they was a-- - Yet you survived this encounter. Is that right? - Oh yeah and he was a failure of a leader but still and he was, I mean, only time he was visible in training in the state, he was in an airplane. - Yeah, right. - Looking down on us and our whole outfit was, until they kinda cleared it up, got fellas moved up in rank, the blacks moved up in rank, most of those guys were very prejudiced 'cause I remember once in basic training we was out and our captain asked one soldier, no he asked to, the solider asked to, he said something to him. He say what did ya, were you talking to me? And he told him and say, I'm not talking to ya mama. And we had a black officer from Ohio, Armstrong his name was. He came and he and his captain went around in words and so in a few days he was outta there. He was transferred. I don't know where Lieutenant Armstrong went but they sent him somewhere. But, I mean, we were in some bad conditions but the 92nd division was very proud of theyself. And, they're a very proud outfit and they stayed together and personally in my opinion, we did a good job. But the records was we wasn't fit to fight. You'll see some of the comments on the . - Right. Well, when you got hit and you were injured and you were at the Red Cross, then what happened? - When the Red Cross lady came by and? - Uh-huh, yeah. Did you go back to the front? - Oh, after about 20 some days I went back. - You went back to the front? - Oh yeah. Went back. I was back before the war was over. - And so you began fighting again. - Oh yeah. Yeah. You went back to the front and-- - What was it like going back? - Oh, I was kinda a little leery, little nervous but as I said, I really didn't back in that nervous racket after. I came out of it 'cause I knew, you know, you realize anything they have. Facts are our creed was die that others may live and others wasn't, before we could get a pass, when we first went into the Army I think it was something like keep walking the military manner. Keeping always on alert and everything that takes place with inside of him. Call it couple of the God and any case that not covered by instructor and quit your post only when properly relieved. So those are some creeds that we had to go by when we, you know, in your training. - Did you lose any friends in this battle? - Oh yeah, yeah. I lost, I mean, I was aware of three close friends 'cause you take up there, you know, you generally just made some at the next 100 feet over there. You just don't what's, exactly what's happening. You know what's going on but you know exactly what happened. But I was aware of that I lost Thomas. One of 'em was, two Thomas. I call one of 'em 6810 and one 68-something number and both of them got killed. William from DC, he got killed. He got killed the first night 'cause before he was really signed he got killed and several guys. You know, when I went back to the line all my outfit was almost neither. I don't know which way they went. And, I haven't touched base with those guys. Only the guy from my hometown. I remember getting back with him after I got back but it was a big, heavy loss. I know when this drive or this fake drive were, after about three days we were returned to our positions and you come by and you could see holes on that coast big enough to put this house in and there was guys, they noticed the guys hadn't had a scratch on 'em but they was dead. See, those big shells will blow ya. It take all your breath out quickly. But anyway, either war, we never did get a good, no good record or anything. - But a lot of you died. - Oh yeah, yeah. And I said when I got back, I don't know how many died, I got back, you know, outta just the company there was about 120 men or more, I mean, be there right on the line of the company besides the other but there's just a few of those guys that I was with when I got back from the hospital. Yeah and I said like a one guy I always think about is I said I mentioned a while ago, Edward Brooks, Senator Brooks of Massachusetts. He and I was in the same platoon and I would hang out with Brooks a lot because Brooks was just a real down to earth guy. You know? Whatever level you was on, he was on it. And he was a smart guy too. - So you met him up in Europe? - On the line. Yeah. - On the line in Europe. - Yeah. And actually I got with him when I was transferred over to his outfit. As I told ya, they transferred some of us outta 92nd that were ready to go over with the 366 to make out they numbers. So he and I was in the same company. - So after the battle, after these battles, then what happened? - After battle, we went back, was pulled back in a reserve camp what you call a made a camp out in the desert and waiting on orders. We thought we were gonna have to go to the Pacific and I was supposed to go, my name was on to go to the Pacific but fortunate I was in Rome when they load and made up but my name was on it and when I came back from Rome off of vacation, off of three day vacation, the ship had made it, had got the load, had closed 'em down and, you know, wasn't no going out or going in at that time. They told me my name was on there but there was one guy, one of the guys that was on there, his wife died pardon me and they evidently the letter had came before the ship left but he didn't get the letter till six weeks later and the trip was six weeks from Europe until Manila, somewhere over, somewhere over in the Pacific. - Right. - But on their way over there, the war had failed over there. They had dropped the bomb over there. The war was over so they didn't have to be in the fight but we kinda went on a few passes and on the weekend. Other than that, we just kinda trained and did athletic, played ball or something. - Did you ever mix with the people who lived in those areas? - Yeah, they was very nice. Very nice people. - Did you eat in restaurants with 'em? - Oh yeah. - And bars with 'em? - Yeah. Every time I was out I had in they restaurant. They had some, very nice. I tell ya, food is real nice. I liked it. - So there weren't any segregation there? - No, no. Those who were the black, you know, I don't know how about there was. They never did catch up with but they sure was very friendly all the while we was there. I know oftentime I go down to their barbershops and get a hair cut and sometime some of 'em have kinda large families and then they have barbers that mirrors are all around. - Right. - And I would see their children standing. - Looking at ya. - Looking. And they try to comb my hair with that little comb and that comb would drop out his hand and break itself. But there I see 'em kinda whistle to one another and he good paison. It's good hair, good hair. I said, thank you. But anyway, it was, it just, but I was talking with a lady in a restaurant in north Italy and we had a habit of telling people we was from New York City or Philadelphia. I told her I was from Philadelphia and unfortunate or fortunate, she had lived in this United State and Philadelphia. But she went to asking me questions and I told her, I just kinda, you know, I hadn't been there long and when I was stuck they caught me on a little something. 'Cause I didn't know nothing about no Philadelphia. Of course I know she knew that. She could tell that quickly but it was, but we finally, at that time, after then, after the war ceased everywhere, the other job was getting back home and the union had the ships on strike. Our ship wasn't moving. - Now was that, that was in Italy or in France or? - The United States ships was on strike. - Were on strike? - Yeah. And we couldn't get back home hardly and I think the British were running their pick ups so many troops and so forth for us I think. But anyway, fortunate, it was in November, late month in November in '45 that orders came down that they needed 120 something guys outta our company. Get ready to go home. And, but if these, so many guys hadn't been in town, I wouldn't have got the chance to catch that ship because you had to, the one who had the most points had anyway, they could go back first. And I didn't have but I think 100 and some points. - Well, how did you get the points? - Oh, you get points by being married, children. - Oh, okay. - Time in the service. - Okay. - And that was the three things I think you get the points on. And I didn't have but three years and I didn't have no wife but I was supposed to get one as soon as I got back. - But you did get on the boat. - And I had an opportunity to get on that load. Before we got back to Boston, it had taken us 21 days from, I forget that port name in Italy but it's up there around Otre. - What took you so long? - What take us so long? - Yeah. Well, it wasn't that much longer than-- - Talking about after the war failed? - Yes sir. - Oh, it just, well, see the Pacific war had failed and I forget what month, a little while after that and then after that we didn't have no way to get back. - Oh, I see, I see. - And the ships wasn't available but when I, then this ship I came back on was a British ship too. And they had room for 127. They came by and picked us up. - Were all of you African American? - In my outfit? - Yeah, all 126? - Oh yeah, all them were. - All were African American. - They was all, oh yeah, they was all and but we got back, it took us 21 days I said, we got the news a storm was approaching us, a hurricane, and they finally turn around and tried to run from the hurricane but it caught up with us. And that's an awful sight, being in the hurricane out there in the mid Atlantic. - I can imagine. - Oh, it's awful but finally we made it to Boston and after I got to Boston everybody nice and talking. Ask me questions about home and so forth. But after we all loaded up, I don't know, we got out probably in Chicago or something and I saw they separated us. They separated everybody and-- - Separated who? - They separated, you know, colored from the white. - Oh. - African Americans from the white. - So when you were in Boston you were in an integrated? - No, no, it wasn't integration. It was all under there in this camp together and so, and I thought they was going another way but we all end up in Fort Bragg, Missouri and I think I'm getting in some talk more . But anyway, we all ended up in Camp-- - Fort Bragg? - No, not Fort Bragg. In, what's this camp name in Missouri? I went there from St. Louis I know. - That's okay. - Was that Bragg? I don't, anyway. - So you ended up in Missouri? - Yeah, that's where I got my discharge and I signed a complaint. My general aware I got hurt and everything, they told me to go on home and said I would hear from them later but anyway, later they wrote me a letter and told me, you know, nothing come of it. So they didn't do anything about it. But later on I got to complain about it even after I got here. - Got complaining about what in particular? - I filed a claim and they didn't do nothing about it. - What was your claim? - I got hit, I got wounded. - Okay, okay. - I got fragments, you know, spattered, hit by fragments and even they claim they had got all the fragments out of my head but even I have trouble when I go through an airport now. They turn me around. - So they never acknowledged that? - They acknowledged, said they had got everything out. I don't know. - But they never did. - Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, finally Congress or anyway, Congressman Stevenson came and I had an opportunity to talk with him but every doctor, even now these doctors I go to here they would just, well, I don't see nothing and see where I got hit there, it used to be a big scar but it grew over, it kinda grew out. I was kinda young then . - Right, right. - It grew over. And this knot is still in the head but it went down. It used to be a great big knot up there and it, but anyway, the fact that I got hurt, I got a Purple Heart and everything. But that Congressman Stevenson got on the case and I went out to Wesley and they looked at me and they gave me 10%. But since then I got up to, I believe 40%. - Okay. - Yeah. But I just started that a few years ago. - Now you're talking about Adlai Stevenson? - Adlai Stevenson. - Yeah, uh-huh. - Yeah in his lifetime he came here and I had the opportunity to talk with him about it. He told me he was gonna see and his wife was a nurse and she called back and told Wesley to receive me and check me out. But anyway, once you, you need to stay with whatever you, you got a case, you need to stay with it until it's finished. - Right. - When I walked off taking a word about we'll see about you going home and I was anxious to go home. So, after that, you know, they kinda forgot about that but I kept-- - But when you got home, then what, when you got discharged, then what did you do? - I went back to the farm one day. I helped my dad work one day, one year, I'm sorry. One year and in the process I got married when I got back. - Who did you marry? - Where did I? - Who, yeah. - Who did I? - Uh-huh. - Leodis. The lady that went back there. - Oh did you? - 60, 40. - Was she your childhood sweetheart? - Well, she was just a real good friend of mine while I was, while I was in the Army. She was a really good friend and really what happened being my friend, I was . When the war-- - I can't hear you. - Oh, I'm sorry. - Yeah, yeah, all of a sudden you're grumbling. - Well, she was a real good friend and after I got back and I got back out of the service she had left and gone to Chicago and I went back and I met her sister and I said, asked her where were she and she told me she was in Chicago and I told her, tell her I said come home. And, about, I don't know, a few weeks I was in service one morning and I looked around and saw her sitting right in the next seat behind me and so we, from then on, we did some planning. - So that was in the baptist church near your home, in your hometown? - Right. That was the baptist church. She used to be a usher at church when she was there. When I left she was a usher and she would always give me a nice fan. We didn't have no air conditioning in the church. She would always bring me a nice fan and every once in a while they'd have whatcha call a peacock feather fan. It was a beautiful fan, fancy fan and she would kinda save one of them to give me when I'd come to church. The rest of 'em had some kinda cardboard fan. But anyway, what else did she, after she came home from Chicago we was planning on going back there but we didn't go. We made our home in Memphis. We moved to Memphis and after which I stayed there about seven years and our oldest three children was born and we left Memphis and came here. I was on my way to California when I came here though and I stopped here and my brother talked me into going to work at Boeing and a few places. I haven't been to the west side yet. - Well tell me, what was it like coming back home trying to get a job and resettle back into? - Well, job was very, very, very, just almost as bad as it was before we went to war. Actually, before I went to war it wasn't any jobs. The farm was the job. - Right. - There was no jobs. And so, I remember working for a guy had a contract of cutting paper, paper timber. Well, it's cutting timber for paper. - Right. - And I worked for him for 10 cents an hour. - This was after you came out of the war? - No, no before. - Okay. - But I had worked for about 75 cents an hour after I came out of the war and then I went to Memphis and got work at Sears. Started going to school, taking a course on mechanic body. - Did the GI Bill help you go back school? - Yes, the GI Bill did. They sent us to school and we'd get $103 a month, I believe, for going to school and I had taken three different courses in school and as I decided, and so I quit working for Sears. I had a fairly good job for Sears. - What were you doing? - I was filling orders in the automobile tires. And I made some mistakes when I first got there on orders. I gave away from big truck tires and there's some smart customers. But I knew I had sent 'em but I failed to check the slip. - Right. - They said they didn't get 'em. But anyway, some folks . After then I came here and I went to work at Beach, not at Beach, at Boeing. - Right. When you applied there did you have trouble-- - No. - Getting online or anything? - No, I didn't have no trouble. They had, this was a guy, he would used to go out there and vouch for help for Beach and all you had to do get in touch with him and he'd get you right in. And, I guess at Beach, I mean for Boeing, I guess Boeing or somebody was paying him because I didn't pay him nothing. I just got, oh, he got me in. - So what were you doing? What was one of your first jobs? - I was doing janitor work when I first started at Boeing. But Boeing was very prejudiced at that time. - Right. - I guess now too. I don't know. But they . - Was it a good paying job? - No. I mean, it was one of the, about third rate in the city. I think the packing company was the highest and I believe Boeing was the next one. But, after a while I think Cessna probably got a better rating than Boeing in hiring and pay rate. But I was getting about two dollars or something at Boeing. - Did you stay at Boeing? - I stayed, I quit Boeing. - Okay. - I stayed there about, I don't know, I stayed there about a year I think. I quit Boeing because I could make more money working for a Ford Automobile dealer but I had to work a few longer hours 'cause I kinda needed some money. - Right, right. - And so I left there and I don't know. I worked for lots of different people here in Wichita. Boeing. - But did you like Wichita? - Yeah. Wichita, actually, Wichita been fairly, been nicer than any other place I know of. As far as, you know, working condition and so forth. - Right. - I never been without a job since I been here but just, they never been there. It wasn't no top job but I was working. - In looking back, how do you view your participation in the war? - I view it as a proud soldier. I view it as I did my job and I know I helped my nation because we, the report said, from our commander said we by being our commander said he lost opportunities but it wasn't so 'cause I, in my experience we did a great job. We was proud that we went for whatever there was to do. Anything, we didn't run from nothing 'cause we, they reported that we faltered and but I was proud of what I did 'cause I learned everything, I learned how to shoot any kinda gun and I would had to use. I learned how to shoot pistol, rifle, machine guns and artillery, the small artillery and on the orders I went forwards. I never refused to, an order. Any time I got ordered to do something, I did it. And so, I did a good job but I learned one thing regardless of what anybody's thinking about me about anything. Whatever. It doesn't worry me a whole lot any more. I got pretty disgusted when I heard some of the reports that our commander said but I think we done a good job but unfortunate no-- - You got a Purple Heart so apparently you did. - Yeah. Oh it was unfortunate, no news really came back to the States about what the black soldier did. No news came back. Tell Virginia to find my DO record. Where did she go? - Yeah, yeah, she found it. - She found the record? I'll let ya look at it. - Have you, did you join any veterans organizations or after you got back from the war? - Yeah, I joined American Legion. Yes, I went to the VFW. - Now were they integrated units or racially integrated or were they black and white units? - Uh, integrated. American unit, American-- - Legion. - Legion was integrated but the VFW I just went to them and did some signing up and trying to subscribe for, you know, for better-- - Benefits? - Benefits, yeah. - Now, was there any black veterans organization in Wichita? - Well, American Legion, you know, they operated-- - There wasn't any all black? - No, I haven't been in any all black. - There have not been any all black? - All black but there is a few, unfortunately I can't really. - Oh, that's okay. - Identify they names right now but I think there is a few small, unserious, supposed to be really join a few things which unfortunate I hadn't been a great part of. I usually help on different auxiliaries and different whatever, benefits, but I haven't been a part of it very much. - If you were, and again, this is a looking back, if, you know, events in people's lives influence them in a variety of ways, what role do you think your World War II experience played in your life? - Well, I think it played, I think the role that it played in my life is that I went through some very tough tasks and I learned one thing, whatever you want, go for it. And, if you, you know, you can't be nothing but a, I mean, if you lose, if you don't go for it, you're gonna be a loser. So I've learned that whatever it is, go for it. No matter how hard the task get, try to hold on and move forwards. And, I've learned, I wished, I mean, I learn that people oughta get an education. That's so important because I've seen so many disappointments by not knowing. So and I can, for some, you can't get lots of help from everybody. - Right. - I mean, it's a simple lesson. Like the little things. You need to learn how to manage, save your money and do things and if you do that, you find that you will have a little money but I was in Arizona, I was so inexperienced I wasn't keeping my own money. I would let another gentleman from Ohio, he was a squad leader of mine, I believe, keep my money because whenever I get a vacation, I would have a fare. It wasn't but $80 from out by Tucson. We'd catch a train from Tucson to Memphis, $80, and I left my, one of two guys keep my fare but the next two days they called my name to go on the vacation and I didn't, I didn't have anything. My money's all gone to Ohio somewhere. And I asked a friend, he was a two sergeant, if he would lend me $80. He promised that he would and after next morning I had gotten ready to go up and catch a train and I asked him, told him that I wanted to give me the money so I could go and he cursed and said, I don't have no money. I said, oh, man. I said, I thought you was gonna give me, didn't have the money. No, man. And I think he had lost his money I think he said. - Right. - But I had another friend there, finally had another gentleman there from Louisiana. He said, okay, Roth, I'll let you have the money. But, you know, those kinda things learn you to, you know, to get ready or to try to do the things to get ready for situation, not depend on people. And different means I had was, I had asked people and they turned me off so disagreeably short. You know, I said, it's good. It learn you that you need to know things. Need an education. You need to be in church. You need an education. Those two things you need. And, you need to be smart to try to work. Do what you learn to do, you know? And so, I've seen disappointed everything else in the service. I've seen lots of good friends that'll help you too. But, I guess, that's kinda around the question you asked me. - Well, yes but I appreciate that. Is there anything you wanna add about your World War I experience? - Well, I guess the, many things I could think I guess they're not really important but but I, I still had pretty lots of activity in the Army and I was a ranger once. That's a group that learned how to do the things beyond the calling. I mean, they trained rugged. About 15 of us in the outfit, trained for a ranger and I was a pretty good basketball player. Played a little baseball and every time the team, the company, our company gets together they'd always find me to play basketball 'cause I was very good about, I thought I was one of the best rebounders that my company had. I was fairly good on shooting 'em too. But I mean, there is lots of things that was very good in the Army but I never did regret it, even on the line. I didn't regret it. I didn't look back and say I wish I hadn't a ever come here. - Right. - I kept my morale up. - Right. - And I got, I say, a few guys like Edward Brooks, that's all. - Interview with Mr. Leroy Roth. Okay, you were saying, Mr. Roth? - Oh. Yeah, I was just about that to say that is, you know, things like that and I never did really hate all the time I was there, even on the front. It gets ordinary. Believe it or not, it gets ordinary although you're in the position you may get killed any second, any time. But I never did really is hate, some of the things I hated the condition I was in on cold weather and wet weather and not getting dried. Wet shoes. - Right. - And I also had the trench feet. My feet got so after I could hardly walk. After. For a long time after I got home. It was bad. - Really? - But I had trench feet and all this kinda thing. I mean, the condition is really bad. - Yeah. - And in some areas. In Europe it was snow. Winters was rougher than it is here. And the snow and mountains, everything else. But other than that, out of all of that, I didn't really, I enjoyed being in Rome. I had opportunities to sit in the stadium that is there, that they said that Pastor Paul, that same stadium that he sit in and wrote a letter to the Corinthians church about running a race. Everybody runs to win. I forget exactly what scripture that is but it's in Corinthians. - Right. - And the Leaning Tower of Pisa, I had pictures taken there. I had taken pictures of Leaning Tower of Pisa, which I think is one of the seven wonders of the world. And it's just, I went in churches there, synagogues there. When you go out the side door, one of the back side doors, you're in a tunnel. They say there's seven miles of that and they gave us counsel and says keep a lip. Y'all stay together. If you get lost, you may not get outta here. And those kinda things, you know, I'd heard about 'em. - Right. - And I was just glad to have the opportunity to see 'em. You know? And we just, in a different time in Italy, I liked, it was really beautiful. And the people, I learned how to speak a little Italian. Of course, I kinda forgot it all. - Sounds like you really liked Italy though. - I did. If I had eye sights, I would have gone back there. - Right. - 'Cause I would have liked to carried my people to Italy. My other son he loves it, all my kids love to travel as far as I was concerned. - Right. - And my wife, she just love to go somewhere she haven't been. I wish I could carry her there but since I don't see, I don't care for visiting. I'd like to go to LA. Now I wouldn't care for going to LA now 'cause I can't see what it's like. And I just, I mean, I can't. But it was wonderful. And look at the different traditions that the Italians had. Usually the ladies work and the men , men just kinda take it easy. That was a tradition they had over there at that time. And, thinking about when I, when I was over there, while I was over there I would think about, even my wife here, she'll send me boxes every holiday and she'll send me a, I could count on her box, and I'd get a box from other people. I give some of the boxes to other guys but I'd always keep-- - But you didn't give her box away did ya? - Oh no. No, I would always keep that locked that up in my trunk until I got rid of. Yeah and one day I had, you know it's so long until they had an inspection where we was at. They could inspect everything you had. They'd open up your trunk. They had keys to open up your trunk and look at it and pull my food out and all this kinda stuff. Of course I couldn't do nothing about it. I said, that's all right. But anyway, Lee was the one stuck by me while I was gone and I came back, we got married and we, I had a little job and she had a little job and we made it. So, it was quite a, after war experience, we made it out. Rented a little apartment in Memphis. I rented a little apartment. I had to crawl. She always liked to sleep on the outside of the bed and I had to crawl over to get in bed 'cause there wasn't no room on the other side. - Right. - So, but we enjoyed it. I came in. The fact is it wasn't doing well around there and the line lady wanted to cut wood to start a fire and I think she told her she wasn't gonna cut wood for me. I think she told me what she said but she wouldn't cut no wood to start. She told her she gon' start it with kerosene. And so I came in, I think I had, I moved on that account, moved to Atlanta. - Well, can I just get some basic demographic information from you? When were you born? Do you mind? - 1922. March the seventh. And I married November the 10th, 1946. - That was the year, that was the day after my birthday. - Oh really? - I came into the world. Yeah . - Oh! Oh. Well. - So, and your wife's name is? Leodis. L-E-O-D-I-S, Leodis. I used to call her Lee baby and she call me Lee, Leroy. - What was your family name Mrs? - Um, my mother? - Yes, your last name. - Washington. - Oh. - No, Coleman, Coleman. - Yeah. - Now, where we you born? - Oh, in Arkansas. - Okay. - East of Arkansas. She was born around west Memphis. That's where I found her. That's where I got-- - And you were born in Arkansas too, right? - I was born in western Arkansas. - Oh, okay. - Yeah. - It's all in Ark. - What were your parents' names, Mr. Roth? - My father's name Fred. Fred D, Fred Douglas. My mother's name Ozella. - And you said you had how many brothers and sisters? - I had eight brothers and four sisters. - And how many children do you and Mrs. Roth have? - Five. - Five children? - Yes ma'am. - And you, you've done a variety of kinds of work. Is that it? - Oh, quite a few varieties. So actually I worked probably for about everybody in Wichita. - So you came to Wichita right after the war or was it in the 50s? - In the 50s, '53. I lived in Memphis about six years. - Uh-huh. - I came in Memphis '53, 1953. I was on my way to LA but I stopped here. I always wanted to go to LA. I tried, after I-- - Okay. What church do you, have you been active in? - Baptist church. I'm in a progressive ever since I been here. I used to belong to a, I left a progressive in Memphis. I was in a progressive in Memphis. Progressive Baptist Church. - Do you hold any positions in the church? - Deacon. - Does Mrs. Roth, do you have any positions in the church? - She's a deacon there. - What kind of other social activities, do you belong to any clubs in the past? I mean, not that you would now but did you have any, belong to any clubs or anything of that sort? - Well, I used to be active in a Masonic . That's gonna be it. And-- - Prince Hall? Prince Hall Masons? - Yes, Prince Hall. And I used to be pretty good little singer after I got out of the service too. - Ooh. - Yeah, I used to sing. I had a pretty good quartet and I had the, I don't know, they kid me so and it was causing a little noise in my family. - What was the name of your quartet? - Friendly Fire. Friendly Fire. - You have any pictures of it? - Yes, I don't know where they are. Where? - In your photo album. - You do? - Oh, yes. Your son showed me a photo. - Oh, oh he, oh he, oh, okay. I thought that was somebody else. I thought that was my daughter that tipped in here. - Leroy? - Yes ma'am. - So do you have any hobbies? - Beg your pardon? - You have any hobbies? - Uh, hobbies? - Yes sir. Do you have any hobbies? - Well, you know I stayed so busy until I kind of-- - Well, where are you working now? - A place called Envision. That's, lots of-- - Right. - Buying lots of-- - We buy products from them. - Is that right? Yeah, Envision. I was a, one year, I was the, the employee of the year. - Yes, that's what I see there. - Oh. - And the state of Kansas Oldest Worker Award. - Oh yeah. Well, sure was the oldest male employee in a, you know, a corporation. In like a building. - So you go to work every day now? - Yeah, I do. Sure do. I think going to work helps me to stay, stay active physically. - So you're gonna be 90 in March. - In March. - Yeah, my uncle was in World War II and he was born in 1922. He was born in March 26th and that's why I know you're gonna be 90. - Oh, yeah. - I didn't have to add up. - Oh, yeah. - Well, I thank you so much for all of your participation. - Well, I appreciate you all coming out.